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Protesters Take Sides in Health-Care Debate
Amid the din of dueling megaphones, demonstrators gathered outside Rep. Lois Capps’ office Thursday to rally for and against health-care legislation stalled in Washington, D.C.
Capps wasn’t around, but the debate went on without her on the sidewalks outside the Santa Barbara Democrat’s empty offices at 301 E. Carrillo St.
President Barack Obama’s plans to overhaul the nation’s health-care system have ignited a firestorm of protest across the nation, and opponents have besieged Democratic lawmakers at their traditional August recess town-hall meetings held back home in their districts.
Polls show public support for Obama’s plans dropping steadily. A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey found that opposition to the plan has increased to 53 percent, up nine points since late June. Just as significant, the intensity of the opposition has been growing, with 44 percent of voters now strongly opposing the health-care reform effort versus 26 percent who strongly favor it.
Meanwhile, critics were handed new ammunition Wednesday with news that this year’s budget deficit will quadruple to $1.84 trillion.
All of those dynamics were on display Thursday in downtown Santa Barbara. Several hundred people joined the demonstration, many in support of Capps, a popular six-term lawmaker. A smaller but still sizable group showed up to question her support for the health-care legislation and to voice frustration over her failure to hold a town-hall meeting about it. Capps’ representatives have said she will be holding a forum in September, although no details have been released.
Last week, registered nurse Kathi Heringer sent out an e-mail calling for advocates of a town-hall meeting to convene outside of Capps’ office. On Wednesday, another e-mail circulated between backers of Capps and the health-care bill, calling for supporters to appear as a counterweight. Santa Barbara City Councilman Das Williams, who is campaigning for the Assembly, also chimed in, urging his supporters to appear.
As cars honked in support of one side or another, Heringer stood in the back of a pickup truck outside of Capps’ office and called out questions over a loudspeaker, challenging the costs and the extent of a government-financed and -run health-care system.
“Why is there no mention of tort reform in the bill being proposed?” she added, eliciting cheers from her side.
“You people over there should be listening because this will impact your lives dramatically,” Heringer called to Capps’ supporters lined up across the street. “You’ll be sorry.”
Heringer also voiced concerns about the bill’s implications for abortion, which have surfaced over the so-called Capps Amendment to the legislation.
On Tuesday, Capps had sent a letter to House Minority Leader John Boehner, R-Ohio, correcting his claim that her amendment “will require (Americans) to subsidize abortion with their hard-earned tax dollars.”
She chided Boehner, writing that her amendment “preserves the status quo in abortion policy,” and pointed out that public funds are still prohibited from being used for abortions in cases of rape, incest or to protect the life of the mother.
Across the street, among Capps supporters was a woman dressed up in a bright green Statue of Liberty costume. Identifying herself only as “Lady Liberty,” she said she was demonstrating because health care was a universal right.
“I believe in this country providing for health care for everyone,” she said. “I don’t think anyone should be left out.
“I think there’s a spirit of meanness and selfishness and I don’t feel that Lady Liberty was brought into our harbors for that reason,” she said. “This country was founded on a generosity of spirit, and that’s why I’m here.”
Although she said was insured and was happy with her current health care, she said would support reform that made such care universal.
“That doesn’t mean I’m not willing to pay more for other people to feel safe and cared for and not afraid,” she said.
Further down the street, Chuck Lawrence was holding a sign calling for Capps to read the Constitution. He and his wife, Hanne, drove from Santa Ynez and were the first to arrive outside of Capps’ office Thursday.
“We’ve never in our lives been a part of something like this, but we decided to because we believe in this country,” he said.
Lawrence, who said he was a registered independent, gestured toward the empty office.
“I don’t know why she doesn’t have the guts to show up,” he said of Capps.
Lawrence said his wife is from Denmark, and she also had apprehensions about the health-care reform proposals in their current form.
“She knows all the problems where you have to wait months and months for a doctor. That’s where we’re headed here if we don’t stop this madness,” he said.
“Our children and our grandchildren are going to pay for this,” he said, calling the cost of such a plan “outrageous.”
But another demonstrator said she felt keeping people uninsured would bankrupt the United States. Introducing herself as Judy and asking that her last name not be used, she said she was insured, but because of pre-existing conditions, paid $6,000 a month for health care. She said the cost for her was unsustainable and that she’d eventually have to drop insurance coverage altogether.
She said she believes health care is a basic human right.
“What does life mean if not health?” she asked.
— Noozhawk staff writer Lara Cooper can be reached at .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address).
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» on 08.13.09 @ 11:44 PM
Capps wasn’t around… that about says it all. She hasn’t read the bill because she won’t have to “utilize” healthcare reform. She’ll be exempt. THIS is the kind of representation we deserve. I don’t think so. Next town hall meeting on healthcare reform, Friday August 21st, 7 p.m., Fess Parker’s hotel. We plan to be there with informed questions. Wonder if we’ll be shouted down like my middle-aged friend was tonight when she tried to discuss issues with the Pro-Reform people… ISSUES are a problem for these folks. Stay on point with ISSUES. Because they are too under-informed to keep up! Hurray for Ms. Heringer - who cares more than Capps. I hope we hear MORE from her!
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» on 08.14.09 @ 04:37 AM
Use our Heads and History here folks….look at the governments track record:
Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid ALL near bankruptcy.
WHY would we want Government to control more?
Public private plan options WILL be phased out over time.
Are government run health care programs working well and costing less in other countries?
HOW can you insure more people with less money?
Has the government EVER had a program that came in AT or under budget?
Our justice system allows us to sue our medical system if they are negligent or fraudulent - it is an option we have to keep them accountable. We won’t have this option OR any other I know of if the government makes these decisions for our care.
YES, we need reform - but NOT this bill.
WHY was such effort made to RUSH it through before the August recess?
WHY would any of our representatives vote on anything they have not personally read?
PLEASE listen and read both sides of the proposal.
Research the philosophies of the people who created this bill - most I have read believe the very young and elderly should receive limited care to allow the funding to pay for those in between, as they are not paying taxes or contributing to the “common wealth”.
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» on 08.14.09 @ 05:26 AM
Thanks for listening to both sides.
You didn’t mention that supporters out numbered opponents 8 or 10 to one.
It was interesting that opponents stood behind our finest (SB police officers) intimating their “support our local police”. There was no violence.
How many supporters were not local and came from North County?
My problem with the present system is the HMO CEOs staggering compensations at the expense of cancelations of policies, work force reductions and excluded coverage.
No one is making a killing off of government run Medicare, Medical or VA health care.
If our health care system is so good, as is, why is our care third world quality for so many Americans? It is the best for those who can afford it.
And why have most doctors and the AMA changed their tune about “socialized medicine”?
It is true that almost every bill in congress has pork in it. At the rate health care is rising, we won’t be able to afford hot dogs.
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» on 08.14.09 @ 05:45 AM
The word “discussion” comes from the same root words as “concussion” and “percussion,” which describes what’s been going on around the country - people lobbing vitriolic words and body language back and forth. The word “dialogue,” however, means that we are willing to deeply listen to and respect the words of another. I hope we can have a civil dialogue here in SB.
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» on 08.14.09 @ 06:04 AM
What Dexter says:
The problem is the HMO CEOs staggering compensations at the expense of cancellations of policies, work force reductions and excluded coverage. No one is making a killing off of government run Medicare, Medical or VA health care. If our health care system is so good, as is, why is our care third world quality for so many Americans? It is the best for those who can afford it.
Pay for it by bringing the troops home, is the only thing I would add.
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» on 08.14.09 @ 06:48 AM
Yes Ron, opponents were outnumbered. Why do you think that was? Oh, it wouldn’t be because the SEIU organized its members in Ventura and shipped them up here would it? No, they didn’t chase the old folks off and intimidate them did they? No, Ron, those in favor of the president’s plan were simply there showing support. Unfortunately, the disproportionate numbers of supporters is not supported by poll numbers show the Obama care plan tanking hard.
As for your problem with our current system, 80% of Canadians polled favor ours over theirs. The British are wondering ever louder why we want emulate Europe’s systems when they are bankrupt. Our own government systems may run nice but they are over committed to the tune of some $40 trillion. So Ron, how are we going to pay for more? If the supply of hospitals, doctors, nurses and other healthcare professionals stays the same, what happens when 40 million more customers show up at the door? Limited supply, increase demand means what Ron? Either the cost sky rocket as you expand supply or service drops for everyone as you spread out the current supply over more demand. Get the picture? It is astonishing how little people think about the simple mathematics of the situation, particularly after 40 years of borrowing their way to prosperity and socialist indoctrination at our fine public propaganda camps. Get a clue man, we simply cannot afford it, which means if you do it they will take your health care and redistribute it to those who don’t and your cast will go up. This is not about reforming bad insurance companies Ron, it is about redistribution of a benefit and the likely recipient will mostly be someone who is not a citizen but here illegally.
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» on 08.14.09 @ 07:10 AM
How can one make the claim that Capps hasn’t read the bill? How does anyone know what someone else has or has not read? Sounds pretty baseless to me.
Lets hope the next meeting doesn’t turn onto a shout-fest!
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» on 08.14.09 @ 07:10 AM
. The fact that there were more supporters attending than those opposing the bill is of no importance. The total number of those who were there to show their loyalty to Lois Capps was one short; Lois Capps. Her office was locked and empty. Way to work with your district, Lois.
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» on 08.14.09 @ 07:13 AM
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07102009/watch2.html
Please watch go to this link.
Healthcare coverage should be called healthcare avoidance. The system is set up to fill the pockets of the rich at the expense of our health. The offices of insurance are rewarded for refusing coverage, not giving it. This is inherently wrong.
In other countries, where socialized medicine is in place, there are longer waits for surgeries, but not when they are life-threatening, more for elective, and it seems like some of these protesters need a lesson in patience and acceptance.
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» on 08.14.09 @ 07:23 AM
Fearful people…what happened during the last 8 years? Now Americans are afraid of EVERYTHING even the opportunity to make sure that all of our neighbors have access to quality, affordable health insurance? Is this a Christian nation? Afraid to “choose life?”
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» on 08.14.09 @ 07:45 AM
What really concerns me is that the conversation continues away from a real discussion.
Kathi Heringer and her other neo-conservative friends gave the usual fear based corporate supporting rhetoric.
I’d live to see the conversation shift from fear to solution based dialog.
It felt great to be there yesterday, standing with doctors, nurses, professionals, professors and other concerned people.
When I see the news on the health care debate I get very concerned because it seems that the “just say no” group is winning but clearly last night on the 4 corners of Carrillo and Garden Street HEALTH CARE FOR ALL was the winner.
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» on 08.14.09 @ 07:46 AM
These shoutfests are a waste of time and bring back memories of the 60’s when the Left shouted down anyone who disagreed with them. The subject is far too important for slogans and politics as usual. Since there is as yet NO PLAN, how can anyone rationally be for or against it? The major point here is the total absence of our (hopefully never again) elected “Representative” who seems to exist to do the bidding of Nancy (she who would be queen) Pelosi. Let’s get some real data on the table have have a civilized debate, shall we?
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» on 08.14.09 @ 07:52 AM
Thank you for a fair and balanced report of the gathering yesterday. I was there and witnessed the protest from start to finish. The PUEBLO, ACORN, America Works, etc. crowd showed up between 3-3:30 to intimidate the productive citizens who were scheduled to show up at 4:30 as they got off work. Many average folks were intimidated by the people brought in by Rep. Capps but still demonstrated…many for the first time in their lives. The anti-Fed Med crowd read from HR 3200 and asked well thought out questions demonstrating a knowledge of the legislation while the thugocracy supporting ‘free everything’ kept trying to impede our First Amendment Right by mindlessly chanting, “What do we want? Free Health Care!” “When do we want it? Now!” Sometimes they would switch it up by chanting, “Yes we can!” over and over. You will also notice that the folks opposed to this huge government take over of our lives gave their names while the opponents, who had printed signs and matching T-Shirts refused to identify themselves. Hats off to candidate Justin Tevis for calling out the Looters and Moochers, telling them he was in a bad mood to have to come straight from his private sector job to stand up for freedom while the folks on the dole have nothing better to do than demand more government entitlements at the expense of the average working person. It was wonderful to see the pro-freedom crowd was intelligent and well informed, not to mention significantly better looking than their pro-welfare state counter parts.
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» on 08.14.09 @ 08:01 AM
hmm, pictures of only yes signs. fair and balanced . . .
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» on 08.14.09 @ 08:03 AM
As someone who is pictured in the protest above, I can tell you the people who showed up to oppose reform we’re probably some of the most shameful excuses of human beings I’ve encountered. if you really want to know what voting base Tevis appeals to, it is people who ridicule handicapped people, push people, threaten people, and pretend to want discussion but just shout innuendo and slurs.
Furthermore, the anti-reform woman pictured with me in the photo confessed to having been paid to be there! Her words: “I’m not being paid to be rational.”
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» on 08.14.09 @ 08:31 AM
Agree w/ Ken Volk. In particular, the behavior of Justin Trevis, a City Ccl Candidate was reprehensible. I say this not as a personal attack - I didn’t know who the guy was until I got home and showed by husband the video I took because I was so appalled - in the video he shames a person who recently lost his job and healthcare, yells at him asking, “don’t you understand business?!” Screams at the guy who was trying to reason with Justin (who had a bullhorn in the bully pulpit of a flatbed truck.) This guy wants to speak rationally for our community?? Won’t get my vote. Anyone who wants the video is welcome to it.
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» on 08.14.09 @ 08:35 AM
Agree w/ Ken Volk. In particular, the behavior of Justin Trevis, a City Ccl Candidate was reprehensible. I say this not as a personal attack - I didn’t know who the guy was until I got home and showed by husband the video I took because I was so appalled - in the video he shames a person who recently lost his job and healthcare, yells at him asking, “don’t you understand business?!” Screams at the guy who was trying to reason with Justin (who had a bullhorn in the bully pulpit of a flatbed truck.) This guy wants to speak rationally for our community?? Won’t get my vote. Anyone who wants the video is welcome to it.
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» on 08.14.09 @ 08:49 AM
Big Government is bad for our health!
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» on 08.14.09 @ 09:16 AM
i was glad that someone had the guts to stand up to all of the union thugs and bullies. the imported, non-native union crowd was paid to be there. the opposition was there by choice. prior to that young man making a stand and speaking out against government dictation of our healthcare, the opposition was trying to be scared and bullied. finally someone took some leadership and authority, which is what the right has been lacking. i was very impressed with justin tevis and if nothing else, you cannot deny his courage to make a stand.
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» on 08.14.09 @ 09:32 AM
Judy pays $6000 a month for health care despite having insurance? She really pays $72,000 a year? Is that just for her or is she paying for a few other people as well? I think that Noozhawk could have gotten a little more information before they just passed along her claims.
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» on 08.14.09 @ 09:42 AM
Pezzle: I would love to see the video.
The PRO-REFORM people were a majority local to Capps’ district.
It seems that the fashion police we’re also there given some of the comments!
Tevis can have all the “courage” he wants to expose himself as a Fascist.
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» on 08.14.09 @ 10:20 AM
I admit that I have not read the competing health care bills now pending. But according to many reports, neither have our “representatives” that have been voting on these, and other, bills in Congress.
The most telling pieces of information concerning the underlying motives of those pushing for federally mandated health care reform are:
1. Our “representative” refuses to meet with her constituents (i.e. her employers) to find out what we think about the subject;
2. Our “representatives” exempt themselves from using the same program they are proposing for us “common people.”
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» on 08.14.09 @ 10:28 AM
If “Capps’ district” aka the “Ribbon of Shame” is so heavily in favor of the plan, then why wasn’t she there? No interest in hearing an opposing view, perhaps? Typical lefty.
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» on 08.14.09 @ 10:47 AM
Its interesting all these “brave” antireformists don’t use their real names!
A congressperson such as Capps can’t be and shouldn’t be expected to drop everything she’s working on because a bunch of people have decided to flash mob her office. The fact that the antireformists both had to pay people and we’re still outnumbered speaks volumes. For all those who are against government, i suggest you might like living in Somalia better. No government and your favorite corporations have free reign to loot and mooch.
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» on 08.14.09 @ 10:55 AM
If anyone wants a totalitarian state, it’s you with a GOVERNMENT takeover of healthcare. All I heard Tevis talk about was FREEDOM, GOVERNMENT STAYING OUT OF OUR LIVES and NOT BEING FORCED INTO CHOICES.
That is about as anti-fascist as you can get.
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» on 08.14.09 @ 11:45 AM
Again no name from the person who directly addressed me. Tevis is the new form of Fascism, the corporate Fascist.
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» on 08.14.09 @ 11:53 AM
And too bad you didn’t hear him ridicule handicapped people as did his bused in supporters.
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» on 08.14.09 @ 12:16 PM
Why are you so interested in a name Ken? Last time someone on a blog asked me for my name I looked him up and lo and behold he was a damned DNC operative (and lawyer to boot). Just curious, we know how you DNC types like to gather info on your opponents, intimidate with your thugs and all. You guys still can’t tell anyone how you’re going to pay for this, well, how are you? You can argue until you are blue in the face about the merits of this so called reform, but it is not a cost reduction reform it is a service redistribution reform which means either we all pay way more for the same level of service or we all get way less service for what we pay now. So which is it, Ken? You can’t afford it, we are broke. We are not the golden goose anymore. China won’t finance the spoiled entitlement minded Americans who spend way more than they earn any more. So what are you going to do? The rich in this country are not sitting on big piles of cash; most of their money is invested. Same with the insurance companies we all love to hate, they are the biggest reservoir of investment capital in the country. If you take that away our ability to grow the economy dies with it. No one I know disputes the need to reform healthcare, just how and how its paid for.
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» on 08.14.09 @ 12:52 PM
Commentators are illustratively hypocritical if not dishonest to claim ProReformists remained “anonymous” but not have the courage of their convictions to post their own. Let the RNC, DNC anyone “investigate” me. I’ve nothing to hide, do you?
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» on 08.14.09 @ 12:54 PM
Ken, the government runs Social Security (going broke), Medicare (ditto), and the Post Office (losing business to UPS, FedEx, and email and slowly sinking - lack of investment in the future, maybe?). While I believe health care is in serious need of a fix, I certainly don’t believe the government has all the answers nor do I believe that a government takeover is necessarily the right answer. On the other hand, the current system clearly does not work. But, as AN50 has asked you, and as I ask you UNDER MY OWN NAME, just how is this supposed to be paid for? By the same 1% of the taxpayers that already pay half the taxes? Not likely. You might want to read some economic history - Maoists and others of their ilk decades ago predicted the failure of capitalistic democracy due to the ability of the “masses” (their term) to legally take (by virtue of their votes) the riches of the few. Their time might have come…..
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» on 08.14.09 @ 01:32 PM
Lois Capps is like many of her Democrat colleagues in that she will not face public opinion, but prefers to hide behind the “imperial” power of being a Congresswoman. The only solution is for people to vote in Congresspeople who will listen and work on behalf of their constituants. Remember, Congresswoman Capps will not be a part of “universal healthcare”, as a Congresswoman she has her own private program and no one in any branch of the government will be using the public healthcare program.
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» on 08.14.09 @ 01:33 PM
Ken V. wrote “... Capps can’t be and shouldn’t be expected to drop everything she’s working on because a bunch of people have decided to flash mob her office”
People have been calling and writing our"representative,” nurse Capps, for weeks and weeks asking to meet or to hold a townhall meeting to discuss the proposed healthcare reform. Her office has continuously said that she would not make herself available.
So it isn’t that she had to drop everything because a bunch have decided to flash mob her office. More like she is refusing to have a legitimate meeting with those that she claims to “represent.”
What is she doing that is so important that she can’t even meet with the people that are paying her and who she is supposed to “represent?”
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» on 08.14.09 @ 02:34 PM
Capps is a joke. And we all know it. And here we are, throwing names around again… instead of focusing on issues… Does the phrase divide and conquer mean anything to you folks? News Flash: We who care, who work, pay taxes and play by the rules, may not be “community organized”—or bussing in Union thugs—but we’re here. And you are HEARING from us. OOOPS - the Prez himself admitted the US Post Office can’t run itself while UPS and Fed-Ex (read private sector) can. But really, don’t listen to me—or the Prez. Listen to all those folks in Britain, who are wondering WTF America is thinking, emulating a clearly failed and dangerous model!?! Thank GOD for the Internet. You can’t silence enlightenment.
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» on 08.14.09 @ 03:34 PM
Health Care is not a RIGHT!!
We can’t afford it. Here’s a thought. Stop having kids if you can’t afford them.
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» on 08.14.09 @ 03:42 PM
PUEBLO members complete with T shirts, of course was present with their hands out demanding that you pay for healthcare for the large portion of the illegal immigrants included in the “46 million uninsured” figure the Democrats love to toss around… no surprise there. I notice they are not pictured either…
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» on 08.14.09 @ 03:45 PM
Also not pictured are the protestors with pre-printed “thank you” signs printed up and distributed by Capps supporters and the ACORN and SEIU army supporting healthcare reform….
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» on 08.14.09 @ 04:11 PM
The level of ignorance, amount of lies and deception voiced here in this forum as well as the outright avarice and hatred clearly illustrates why anti-Reformists anti-progress pro corporate commentators don’t dare reveal your true identities. All of you really should be ashamed of yourselves if its actually more than one or two people.
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» on 08.14.09 @ 05:30 PM
Santa Barbarans with private insurance should know this because it happened to us. Despite paying more than $12,000 for single coverage, we found out AFTER an approved surgery that the anesthesiologist was not covered. Who would think when insurance approves surgery that they won’t pay for your anesthesiologist? Who chooses their anesthesiologist? So we are stuck paying ANOTHER $4,000 or have our credit harmed if we refuse. This is what happens when insurance companies run wild.
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» on 08.14.09 @ 06:55 PM
I am quite surprised at the bias shown in this article. Why was it necessary to rehash all the national sensational news on this issue, and yet offer no new analysis of facts? This is a local story but had no real local information, such as an interview of the citizens who attended the demonstration.
This article shows a lack of depth or understanding of the issue. Don’t you read the factual information out there before you attempt to influence us? I don’t think you can just throw around what Fox news and Glen Beck are screaming. I thought more highly of your news website until now.
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» on 08.14.09 @ 07:06 PM
Ken, how will we pay for it? We are broke. The cookie jar is empty. The bank of China declined our credit card. We quit making money along time ago. There are not enough rich people to tax. There are too many to care for and not enough infrastructure to support them. Well you’re a brave lad Kenny, putting your name out there for all to see while never answering the question. Where does the money come from? Think Ken, because those old folks out there really do understand where it comes from, they know hard work, sacrifice and personal responsibility. They paid their dues and deserve far more respect than “life counseling” in order to determine how little care they get. 20 million illegal aliens is a huge burden on our system now and are bankrupting hospitals everywhere. Where does the money come from to pay that down! Think! Who is going to pay Ken? Yes that’s right, now you’re getting it, its you and me. Just when you didn’t think things could get worse, skyrocketing debt, mounting unemployment, Cap and Tax tied around one ankle and enormous government intervention into the market around the other and the “O”, watching us drown, does he throw us a floatation device? NO, he throws us a block of concrete called Obamacare! Ken, with out a strong underlying economy that produces more than its people consume, YOU HAVE NO MONEY! You don’t get welfare, Medicare, Obamacare or any other amenity paid for BY OUR ECONOMY if ITS FREAKING BROKE! Do you understand that? Is the fog of many years of propaganda beginning to clear? You can’t get something for nothing and when you already owe 10 times what you are worth you get less, got it?
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» on 08.14.09 @ 08:04 PM
Those SBCAN losers were there too.
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» on 08.14.09 @ 11:13 PM
You can’t compare medical coverage to package delivery. They are completely different. And the services provided by Fedex/UPS are greatly less than what the US Postal Service provides. The USPS also delivers mail. To handle and deliver this mail requires many more employees than what Fedex and UPS needs to deliver just packages. Also, USPS does not have a direct competition with Fedex and UPS. Their direct competition is with email.
However, a government supported public option for healthcare is in direct competition with private options. Since when did the health reform bill propose to get rid of the private option altogether? A competitor to the private option can only be good for the people.
For all those who oppose healthcare reform, ask yourselves if your insurance provider really has your best interest in mind at a fair price? If you can answer Yes then carry on with your protest. What good is the hippocratic oath if it controlled by big business?
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» on 08.15.09 @ 06:26 AM
With all that has been said and written about health insurance, little or nothing has been said about some specific aspects of health insurance.
Health insurance became tied to jobs during World War II, shdn there were wage and price controls. Employers could not raise employee pay. This practice remained after the end of World War II. Its mere presence has shielded people from the true costs.
When you buy health insurance, you cannot, as I understand it, buy your health insurance from a firm in another state. This means your choices are limited to plans based in your state and you pay more than you should have to.
The No. 1 goal ought to be to make health insurance what it was originally intended to be originally - to cover catastrophic conditions, not routine care. You don’t use your homeowner and auto insurance to pay for the routine care and maintenance of your house and car. You save them for catastrophic conditions.
Health care is a service, like other services all of us use as needed. If people were no longer shielded from some realities, they will think twice before using services and will instinctively choose the cheapest way to meet a need. I think we would see a resurgence in family practice and less use of specialists and hospitalization for conditions that are not life threatening.
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» on 08.15.09 @ 07:11 AM
Since (some) personal attacks seem to be allowed:
Who said that, “Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel”?
I read yesterday’s comments and some of those who questioned me hid behind patriotic names or nicknames.
We are just incapable of listening to one another. Attacking is easier.
Thanks noozhawk for the forum.
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» on 08.15.09 @ 07:13 AM
You liberals and Obama care proponents keep asking for a debate, tired of being shouted down and hating any opposing viewpoint. Well I’ve asked Ken and made the point three times now that we don’t have the money. So far not a single one of you intellectuals who are so desperately seeking a debate has chosen to address that problem, why? Do you believe money grows on trees? Think we can finance a $1 trillion healthcare package with a printing press? Oh I know just tax the rich, right? Tax evil greedy corporations? Tax everyone and everything but you? We have a limited amount of health care service. What we have has been built primarily by private enterprise. What happens when you introduce 10, 15 or maybe 40 million new users to that system? Health care is not a wealth generating system. It is parasitic, in that it requires resources that would otherwise be used to expand the economy. It is necessary for a compassionate society to have health care and that care should be for all. But you HAVE TO PAY FOR IT. So again, for the fourth time where are you going to get the money? The billions of dollars the insurance industry, who I am no fan of, makes, is not sitting in some bank somewhere. It is invested in our economy. Pull that capital out and what happens? Do you have a clue? Do you understand the nature of unintended consequences? You want a debate? Answer the question!
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» on 08.15.09 @ 07:55 AM
AN50, can you explain exactly how the billions of dollars of health insurance capital is invested back into our economy? If you’re talking about employing people, why can’t a government sponsored healthcare program employ people also? And wouldn’t a cost competitive option for employers and employees free up more spending money for everyone to keep the economy moving? Millions have gone bankrupt because of healthcare costs their insurers have refused to pay. What good is that insurance then? The only ones who benefit from our current healthcare system are the insurance company executives who still tried to collect their bonuses after accepting a government bailout.
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» on 08.15.09 @ 08:45 AM
“anti-Reformists anti-progress pro corporate commentators don’t dare reveal your true identities.” Absolutely right, Ken - when Obama has all of you snitches reporting anti healthcare types to .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) it’s safer that way. With the White House invading and inspecting your computer when you log on to cars.gov for a cars for clunkers claim we feel it’s safer not to give information to the new fascist government. Got a problem with that Ken? You feared Bush invading your privacy, why not Obama??
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» on 08.15.09 @ 09:08 AM
Yo AN50
I would’ve answered your questions if I could find in the midst of all your vitriol. How its going to be paid for has already been worked out PLUS if you are really REALLy concerend about our revenue and the economy then maybe you might want to demonstrate against the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq- for who’s citizens also provide nationalized healthcare for (but not our own people). Billions saved there. Also, the 12 billion dollar figure is a drop in the bucket. Everyone was all excited to give Goldman Sucks and Skank of America billions but people are too ignorant and greedy to actually help those in need.
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» on 08.15.09 @ 12:54 PM
Just wait until the government goes wild. You ain’t seen nothin’ yet. Wait, they already are going wild… let’s hand them more control and power over our lives with healthcare… Is it 1984 yet? Funny, aren’t the pro healthcare reformers the same ones that wanted the government’s hands off of their bodies when it comes to abortion choice? Now they want the government to fondle them with complete control over their bodies in every aspect of their healthcare - with bureaucrats making their choices..
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» on 08.15.09 @ 12:56 PM
The side with professionally pre-printed signs tells you everything about which side was grass roots and which side was organized by Obama’s brownshirts…
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» on 08.15.09 @ 01:11 PM
Means tort reform - putting a cap on malpractice suits, if they truly are interested in reducing costs this would be part of it.. Give us a tax free health savings account so we can save our own money for healthcare instead of trusting the government to save for us (like social security)...It’s as simple as that..the whole frickin’ system doesn’t have to be tossed out!
Why is all this not in there? Because it won’t help the government take over your lives. If anyone believes the big “O” when he says if you like your plan you can keep it has not taken that sentence to the next step - If you like your plan you can keep it IF it still exists. Why would your employer keep paying for your healthcare plan, when the government offers one for free?
The public option will soon be the only option.
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» on 08.15.09 @ 02:26 PM
Computer printed signs don’t really qualify as “professionally printed”; not to disregard the far more abundant handmade signs pro-reform supporters brought. I wonder if Tevis used campaign contributions or his PA? Its hilarious how he claims he was forced “to leave” his “private sector job to” go to the rally which he instigated to begin with. Tevis and his ilk can call me a snitch all you want, but you’ve proven yourself both morally bankrupt and a poor excuse for a human being. the fact that the term “snitch” is used but proves (at least subconscious) acknowledgement that you are wrong and maliciously minded if not completely afflicted with avarice.
Tevis tries to ride Ron Paul’s shirt tails, but Ron Paul would never stoop to the gutter like Tevis and the antireformists have. If you want to emulate Dr. Paul, try intellect and honor.
Wait til you see the video :)
Happy to snitch on any Fascist
Ken Volok
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» on 08.15.09 @ 03:40 PM
OBAMA’S SPY OPERATIVES/PAID GOVERNMENT “VOLUNTEERS” WERE SO OBVIOUSLY NOT LOCAL. THE GUYS CARRYING EACH OTHER ON ONE ANOTHER’S SHOULDERS…GIVE ME A BREAK. THE COMMUNIST GROUPS LIKE AMERICORPS AND ORGANIZE FOR AMERICA ALL GET PAID TO PROMOTE OBAMA’S RADICAL AGENDA. THIS IS VERY SERIOUS STUFF AND I WISH THE NATIONAL NEWS WOULD COVER THE STORY A LITTLE MORE.
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» on 08.15.09 @ 04:55 PM
Actually it was the antireformists who didn’t quite seem local. Like the woman who accidentally confessed she was being paid to be there by anti Healthcare reformists.
In fact it will all soon be demonstrated exactly how local we are.
And what about the two guys in “each other’s arms” as you put it? Are you also homophobic? Because then we are pretty much safe to assume then that you are then too a racist. Which is really at whats at the heart of the matter isn’t it?
Its all groovy when Sarah Palin promotes what you call “death panels” in Alaska; but dare someone suggest we help people with hospice care suddenly its a horrible thing. What do you call it when you purposefully scare a population? Terrorism.
And we reformists are all very sorry you don’t approve of our fashions. we’ll do our best not to wear white after Labor Day.
I’m glad this opportunity has been given to expose you all for the cowardly, thuggish paranoids you are. Have fun in the shadows.
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» on 08.15.09 @ 06:10 PM
The harder you try to defend your shallow comments the dumber and more desperate you look. By the way, my computer printer doesn’t print on cardboard, I don’t know about yours :) Your name has been sent to .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address). and Bush already has your phone records - it should be a nice addition to your file. “Happy to snitch on any fascist” is a deeply thought out comment too. You are acting like a fascist just by saying that you will assist in snuffing out opposition. Who are you going to snitch TOO if not a fascist government? And what will you tell them? That they have opponents and here they are? A fascist government suppresses opposition. Think about that.
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» on 08.15.09 @ 06:50 PM
I really liked how you handled this report - it was accurate and fair. KEYT-3 reported this same scene in a much different manner making it appear that there were only 100% supporters of the HCR bill on the scene and that no protesters were there. Give me a break KEYT news - tell the whole story!
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» on 08.15.09 @ 07:50 PM
Anyone who refers to someone else as a “snitch” pretty much knows there up to no good.
Face it, a black man born in Hawaii (a state IN the United Sates) won the presidential election which included a mandate of universal health access. You lost already. If you wish to send him my name as a supporter of his actions on my behalf and the behalf of every US citizen, feel free!
Or you can hide under the covers waiting for the boogeyman, either, get a grip!
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» on 08.15.09 @ 07:51 PM
Imrubio, thanks for the engaging question. We may be political opposites but at least we can have a dialog. I don’t think Ken wants to join, so I’ll answer your questions now, though my original question to you and those on your side of the debate is still as yet unanswered.
When insurance companies collect your premiums for a policy it invests that money into financial instruments much like a bank. Those instruments may be stocks in a company or investment pools for venture capital. This “investment” puts needed capital into the hands of businesses that are expanding.
As for a cost competitive system, first the government has an unfair advantage over the private sector, we already hammer domestic production with un fair trade practices, why add on? Second, as others have mentioned, just eliminate the interstate trade ban for medical and reform tort law and you will not believe the difference that will make. And it won’t cost the tax payers a dime.
But still, healthcare is a service. For it to expand in an economy not making more wealth it must take from some where else. Ken is busy getting into a spat with others because it’s a distraction from his lack of basic economic understanding. “They have it all worked out”, is not very convincing Kenny, being that “they” the federal government, is $11 trillion in the hole right now. They also promised us Social Security too, but we all know now that they promised more than it can pay, right Kenny? You see folks when you have a growing pie we all get more. But when the pie shrinks, well you and I get way less.
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» on 08.15.09 @ 08:16 PM
“Like the woman who accidentally confessed she was being paid to be there by anti Healthcare reformists.” Which woman was that Ken, the one in your mind? Can you do a little research on the group of anti-healthcare reformists that pay people to be there and get back to us? Because this anti-healthcare reformist wouldn’t mind a check for his efforts…
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» on 08.15.09 @ 08:21 PM
Fascism:
A governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.
Hmmm sounds kinda like what Obama is after…or already has?
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» on 08.15.09 @ 10:51 PM
The woman who confessed to being paid to demonstrate by anti Healthcare reformists (is the woman standing in front of me in the picture, the fat one with the hateful look on her face as I have previously pointed out. So either the previous commentator can’t
read or is themselves the one “on dope”.
The antireformists responses here for the most part are a real embarassment to this community if indeed you arise from it. I challenge any of you to speak this smack to my face. Or is it easier for you to hide behind pseudonyms and sling filth (racism), lies, and innuendo; not to mention your lack of compassion for your fellow man.
Included in the lie is that Social Security is broke. Another example of the corporate Fascist lie that people like Trevis enjoy propagating. “Where” the money is coming from is also in the bill, but most of the wealthy people I know are happy to contribute more towards the betterment of their fellow man and nation.
Its terrorism, its racism, its ignorance, avarice and greed, alive and seething in SB. All you brave “patriots”, hiding behind false names because you’re too afraid of the boogeyman are whats killing the country you profess to love. Teabaggers are nothing but freeloaders. Don’t wanna pay any taxes, stay off the public streets, don’t call emergency services, don’t use ANY of the public resources you don’t want to pay for.
How’s that? Why should we pay for your fire protection? Why should we all pay for the road you want to drive on? Just stay home, hiding in the dark, slithering into the dustbin of history. But it is most certainly immoral, dishonorable and soon illegal to deny any one medical services.
Where were any of you brave “patriots” when Bush stole two elections, let a city drown and allowed both the capital and the WTC to be attacked by your middle eastern alter egos due to the very least his negligence. Where was your love for the country when the Patriot Act was passed? Oh yeah you were all cowering from a buncha rednecks tooling around in golfcarts.
Disgusting.
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» on 08.16.09 @ 01:23 AM
Obama can’t produce a birth certificate from the U.s.
This is because he was born outside this country and therefore is not a citizen.
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» on 08.16.09 @ 06:00 AM
Hey Ken. I agree with you 100%. Do not worry there seems to be a disproportionate group that regularly comment on Noozhawk that are part of the right wing group. An50 always seems to make personal comments and assessments. For example, his criticism of your economic knowledge and understanding. Based on his answer, I would say he needs to go back to school and review some of the insurance company’s financial statements. An50, they reinvest in advertizing, executive compensation and lobbying. Some backdate stock options(United Healthcare) or create exotic financial instruments such as credit default swaps (AIG) that nearly drag down the entire world economy. They raise premiums well beyond the cost that medical care is increasing to satisfy their stockholders by expanding margins. Their priority is not healthcare but profits.
There needs to be a combination or things to improve healthcare in this country such as tort reform, interstate access, eliminating medicare fraud, better regulation of insurance companies and yes competition from a public option that is revenue nuetral. We already have 46 million people without insurance heading to the ER and costing the taxpayers many times more. An50 to pay for it, how about rolling back the Bush tax cuts on the upper tax bracket(theat includes me), adding a few cents tax on soda, increasing Medicare copays for higher income people, eliminating many unneccessary procedures, taxing individual that receive gold plated medicare care valued at as much as $50K per year, insenting preventive medicine by eliminating copays and paying doctors more for those types of services, raising premiums on obese people like we do with smokers with incentives to reduce their weight, streamlining the paperwork with electronic records, allowing Medicare to negotiate the drug costs ($300 billion) and denying illegals access to illegal employment through rigorous INS enforcement.
Why do you think organizations such as Freedom Works and Americans for Prosperity are funded by the insurance companies. Why do you think they are organizing and paying people to disrupt these town hall meetings? Do you think they are doing it out of their concern for people’s healthcare or their bottom line? Wake-up!!
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» on 08.16.09 @ 08:27 AM
Local and Ken for that matter, you can reform all you want and that is good. But unless your underlying economy produces wealth all you are doing is moving the same blocks around, you are not adding any new blocks. You cannot expand services (which are net economic drains) without taking away from somewhere else. The pie is only so big and right now that damned pie is shrinking. So you boys can give me all the feel good DNC talking points you want, but last summer the oil speculators did this country the biggest favor yet. They tipped us over the brink and ended 50 years of borrowing madness. Banks closed, China says no and we don’t make enough to pay the debt let alone increase more economy dragging services. I don’t care how paranoid you are about going broke and trying to survive with no safety net. Those of us have done it aren’t frightened, we know we can survive, but your huge healthcare entitlement is not a safety line, it is not a floatation device, it is a rock that will surely drown us all. Every thing you mention Local is robbing Peter to pay Paul. The only time that works is if the money taken is invested in things that grow more wealth, not redistribute it. You simply cannot win this one; the economy does not support it. You can have all the feel good services you want when you can pay for it and that gets real easy when the economic engine is running at full steam. But you folks are so inculcated in your hatred of capitalism that you spend your entire lives trying to find ways to kill it, when it is the only thing that has allowed you the life style you have now. If a communist giant can figure that out, put it into practice and then become one of the fastest growing economies in history why the hell can’t you?
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» on 08.16.09 @ 01:17 PM
KEN VOLOK rants: “The antireformists responses here for the most part are a real embarassment to this community if indeed you arise from it. I challenge any of you to speak this smack to my face.”
DUDE - you’re the embarrasment…
Next town hall meeting on healthcare reform, Friday August 21st, 7 p.m., Fess Parker’s hotel. We plan to be there with informed questions.
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» on 08.16.09 @ 03:07 PM
An50 once again I am a capitalism but I believe in a long term investment. Do you not see we are paying for this anyway? It is alot more expensive in the ER. The way to make us more competitive is providing affordable healthcare to all US citizens and legal residences. This will not only strengthen business it will make us more competitive in a capitalist world. You do not seem to understand that the number one cause of bankruptcy is healthcare costs. You cannot just take millions of people out of the system if you want to continue to be the greatest country and maintain a superior standard of living. Many of my examples of how we pay for this were not robbing Peter to Pay Paul. They were simply making us better and more efficient at healthcare delivery including the much more cost effective route of prevention. Healthcare is not a servie as you put it. It is not like getting waited on in a restaurant. It is a standard of life issue, a competitive issue, a humanitarian issue beyond just the profit motive. I too have done well in a capitalist world but it is important to make sure all boats float to maintain the proper infrastructure to survive. Do you just want to continue with the medical insurance pyramid scam that is sucking the life blood of this country? I have offered a variety of solutions here and what I get in return is the same old GOP/Freeworks/Dick Armey/Glenn Beck/Limbaugh talking points. Try to engage and help find a solution as opposed to a yelling match of name calling and the just say no, duck and cover strategy.
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» on 08.16.09 @ 04:46 PM
Local if you’re a capitalist then you should know the difference between a consuming economy and a producing one. Healthcare consumes it does not produce. Yes you are right; it is a quality of life issue and the better care we receive for our health the higher the quality of our life. However, you have to pay for it! It isn’t free. The government doing it doesn’t mean we don’t have to pay. You still pay and now you have a third party involved with a horrible track record for spending more than it collects in taxes, taxes that take away from production. This is not rocket science my friend, it is how it works no matter your passion for providing care for all that is superior. You still have to pay. If you are a capitalist then you have run the same numbers I have and you have quickly seen that even increasing efficiency, taking a much larger bite out of investment capital (taxing) will not make up the short fall in our economy to support government healthcare. It ain’t there. And what’s worse is the economy is retracting very fast. My point has not been to rag on the liberal good intention, just to wake you up and realize that feel good stuff cost a lot of money and money doesn’t grow on trees. We have to make it. That means being a producer economy once again. When we are shipping more stuff out in value than we import that will be your clue. When we are growing at 11% like the Chinese in a RECESSION then we will start producing the extra capital and wealth necessary for a premium healthcare system that is available to all. But make no mistake, an economy that is 20% healthcare is not only not sustainable but will collapse, as its doing now, now that China won’t loan us the money to keep the ponzi scheme going. We have to make our own and we have to do it by making our own stuff. If you have no economic growth, you have no healthcare, public or private. I am rather shocked and thoroughly dismayed at the utter ignorance people on both sides of this debate have when it comes to basic economics. It is disheartening to hear so many comments where no one even looks at the costs or how they will be paid. This disconnection the people of this country have with the economic engine that makes it run is alarming and dangerous. This is a direct result of social programs that do not hold beneficiaries accountable. We become institutionalized and then we expect more than can be delivered. The message is clear, if you want better healthcare you better have a much better economy.
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» on 08.16.09 @ 05:46 PM
An50, the message is clear except that you have it backwards: If we want a better economy then we need better and more affordable healthcare. The cost of healthcare today and the outrageous rate of increase is an excessive tax on individuals and businesses that is crippling our competitiveness and quickly turning us into a third country.
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» on 08.16.09 @ 05:56 PM
The obvious solution is to, at the very least, roll back the Bush tax cuts. Proposition 13 also needs to either be completely overturned or at the very least modified at the state level.
Historical fact- the country as a whole prospered at a higher level under the old tax code. The Reagan tax cuts were another deliberate attempt to fiscally sabotage the US government, to facilitate privatization of public resources and services- which further impoverishes communities as well as our civil liberties and quality of life.
The fallacy of the trickle down theory easily be illustrated by our current economy and deficit. The GOP also loves to try and blame Bush’s expenditures on the Obama Administration, hoping to rely on hysteria to blot out memory I suppose.
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» on 08.16.09 @ 09:35 PM
The obvious solution is to, at the very least, roll back the Bush tax cuts. Proposition 13 also needs to either be completely overturned or at the very least modified at the state level.
Historical fact- the country as a whole prospered at a higher level under the old tax code. The Reagan tax cuts were another deliberate attempt to fiscally sabotage the US government, to facilitate privatization of public resources and services- which further impoverishes communities as well as our civil liberties and quality of life.
The fallacy of the trickle down theory easily be illustrated by our current economy and deficit. The GOP also loves to try and blame Bush’s expenditures on the Obama Administration, hoping to rely on hysteria to blot out memory I suppose.
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» on 08.17.09 @ 10:10 AM
Ken, Local, I love you guys! You are such the quintessential liberals. You make it too easy for me. No Local I don’t have it backward you do. Unless you are born too sick to do anything then healthcare is not necessary to be productive. Honestly, where do you get this stuff? Kenny, increasing taxes is not producing wealth. Do you understand that or am I explaining this to a lump of rock? There is simply not enough liquid, un-invested wealth at the top of our socio economic strata to pay for what you want. The Bolsheviks made the same idiotic error, assuming the rich sat on piles of cash, hording it, so all they had to do was steal it from them and redistribute to the needy. Oops, they ran out in a hurry. The Soviet citizen had housing for all, healthcare for all, food for all and jobs for all, but with no real wealth generating capacity in their economic model everything they had was the very least for survival, in a word, crap. That is the socialist model. Redistribute what you have rather than expand wealth so everyone can have more (good God look what the damned Chi-coms did, they embrace their communist system but realized it did not expand wealth, so they opened capitalist zones to encourage wealth generation so they would have more wealth to distribute, and they are damned good at it!). You guys on the left really are your own worst enemy. You kill wealth generation (and I mean real wealth not speculative wealth), and then cry that there is not enough good stuff getting to the bottom. Stop killing the engine of economic growth with your hatred of capitalism and let it go. You will benefit much better in the end and so will the needy.
As far as healthcare goes, yes reform is necessary to curtail costs, but real reform, like tort law and insurance law. You also cannot extend benefits to those who are breaking the law to get them (like illegal aliens). That is the definition of a runaway system. There is plenty of competition already but interstate restrictions make that impossible. There is no reason a person should lose an insurance benefit they paid for. But on the other hand if you use that benefit there must be a method for curtailing abuse.
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» on 08.17.09 @ 10:46 AM
Deregulation is another code word for privatization of public resources and services. As demonstrated historically in my previous post- the nation as a whole was a lot better off before the Reagan/Bush tax cuts. To deny this is to be either legitimately uninformed or willfully ignorant.
I hate to break the news to all the “Tea Baggers” but a majority of the US public views them as freeloaders.
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» on 08.17.09 @ 03:02 PM
“I hate to break the news to all the “Tea Baggers” but a majority of the US public views them as freeloaders.”
Yeah, they are all pissed about getting stuff for free from the government so they are protesting having to pay taxes to pay for all the free stuff. What an idiot.
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» on 08.17.09 @ 03:14 PM
You insult the lady in front of you as being “the fat one with the hateful look” and you call HER hateful?? So because she is overweight yo use a personal attribute in an attempt to invalidate her opinion? This is tolerance? This demonstrates “compassion for your fellow man” to use your words? Her opinion is not valid and you are spewing on here about the bigotry of the country you live in that you hate so much? What a jerk. I’m glad we all have a picture of what a self-loathing American jerk looks like. You’ve got problems friend, maybe you can find another country that you like. Do us a favor. The ones that pay for EVERYTHING are the selfish ones because they are sick of it and don’t want to pay more? The ones with their hands out wanting everything for free are the generous ones?? Teabaggers are nothing but freeloaders who don’t wanna pay any taxes? Wrong buddy, they are the ones that are paying ALL the taxes. FACTS: The top 1 percent of the population pay 40 percent of the taxes the lower 40% of the population pays NOTHING. The top one percent can not afford all of the freebies you all feel you are entitled to for doing nothing!!!
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» on 08.17.09 @ 03:16 PM
ken. you are the like the nancy pelosi of the comments section. keep talking because you will never convince a single soul that a government run healthcare system is the answer. you are the perfect representative for the left because you are ignorant and do way more damage for your side than you help. i love it!..... and what is your obsession with tevis? you talk about him so much that i begin to wonder if you hate him, or secretly admire him. haha
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» on 08.17.09 @ 03:17 PM
“the nation as a whole was a lot better off before the Reagan/Bush tax cuts.”
Are you talking about under the presidency of Jimmy Carter by any chance?
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» on 08.17.09 @ 03:28 PM
“the much more cost effective route of prevention.” If you’re counting on prevention to reduce cost then the whole thing is flawed. How do you enforce healthy choices (eating smoking exercise) and maintain a free society? Answer: It is impossible because then it is no longer a free society. OOPS! oh I guess Obama doesn’t want freedom, he wants control over your lives.
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» on 08.17.09 @ 03:38 PM
It’s very easy to ENFORCE healthy behavior. Home, Fire and Car Insurance companies do it all the time. CHARGE MORE for fatties, drug addicts, drunks, those who don’t wear seatbelts and helmets. DUH.
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» on 08.17.09 @ 03:57 PM
Hmm according to this website, Ken Volok seems to have an obsession with men’s nipples. That explains a lot. Freeloader? What is a freeloader other than someone who contributes nothing tangible to society (fineart?) and wants free healthcare for it?
http://fineartamerica.com/profiles/ken-volok.html
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» on 08.17.09 @ 04:23 PM
I wish I could make a living taking snapshots of men’s nipples, calling it “fine art” and then demanding that YOU pay for my healthcare!
http://www.artbreak.com/Ken Volok/works
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» on 08.17.09 @ 04:37 PM
Hahaha!
Out of all of my images in distribution it is more telling about “A Little Research’s”
focusing on one image of a nipple as opposed to the breadth of work I have done. It’s as if one photograph erases the facts I have presented.
And my “Nice Claim.. ” about the overall economic health of the government and its populace, on a national and state level is historical fact, try cracking open a history book or maybe take a class at SBCC.
BTW, I have health insurance, its my friends and others that don’t that I’m fighting for.
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» on 08.17.09 @ 06:48 PM
“Yes” I bet you do wish you could make a living out of photographing men’s nipples, but then “who doesn’t like tits?”
But maybe you’d like this one better:
http://www.artbreak.com/work/show/97720-old-gory-4-ken-volok
Thankfully I have health insurance, if you don’t want a public option for yourself that’s fine. But a vast majority of voters in the last Presidential election demonstrated they do.
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» on 08.17.09 @ 07:05 PM
You’re toast. You’re right, its not just the nipples “the breast of your work ” also includes a fascination with cropped photos of men’s chests. Perhaps this is symbolic of your inner desire to suck off of the government nipple? It’s ok it is clear your agenda and purpose for using you real name was to get exposure of your ahem… “art”. Mission accomplished, now go away. No wonder you need help from the government nipple I can’t see this stuff selling.
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» on 08.17.09 @ 07:12 PM
Ken’s obsession with Tevis is probably that he wants to see his nipples. IN reality, Ken is a malcontent because “art” - especially that which requires no talent - doesn’t pay as well as the average job with healthcare benefits. He missed the boat made a bad choice and wants us all to pay for it. Have compassion people. Funny how socialists are always poor starving artists and the like who think the world owes them a living - the Paul’s of the “robbing Peter to pay Paul” world.
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» on 08.17.09 @ 07:17 PM
It’s as if some fat on a lady erases all the facts she would present, so why shouldn’t a nipple erase yours? What goes around comes around, in your case it’s hate, narcissism and arrogance. You know, you’re an “artist” for a reason. It’s because you are a midget when it comes to mental activity - you keep hanging yourself and shooting yourself in the foot.
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» on 08.17.09 @ 07:20 PM
And 24 of men’s bare chests lol
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» on 08.17.09 @ 07:30 PM
Why do you have health insurance, is it because you paid for it? Your friends can too if they so choose, OR, if you are so compassionate, how about paying for theirs instead of “fighting” to steal it from everybody else? Because you can’t afford it? WELL NEITHER CAN WE!! Why open the door to government control and 1984? I bet you didn’t like the patriot act and Bush “spying” on you and you don’t want the government making decisions for you like making abortion illegal, right? To be consistent with those views you would also oppose government run healthcare in any way shape or form. Obama collecting a database on those who oppose the healthcare plan is ok, right? Obama’s bureacrats “counseling” your grandmother about end of life options is ok right? Obama snooping into your computer if you log into cars.gov is ok right? It’s all a lot more complicated than “hey! my friends get something for free!” and we get to “stickit” to the wealthy and greedy corporations!!
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» on 08.17.09 @ 07:36 PM
Who’s Tevis?
Isn’t he that guy who organized that Pro HealthCare Reform Rally I went to where the crazies showed yelling at handicapped and old people?
Actually you can ask Justin yourself the extent and nature of our relationship, but i don’t think he’ll want to talk about it ;-)
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» on 08.17.09 @ 08:44 PM
wow. this ken guy is a real lunatic. he must have some sick obsessive issues. this is the kind of guy that asks for free health care? not in my country. not on my watch.
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» on 08.17.09 @ 08:56 PM
hahaha. ken you are hilarious. first you rant and rave about your hatred for the “corporate fascist” and then you try to act like you somehow know him….oh and you even claim that he organized a “pro health care reform” event. let the people judge.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gLRfuY8vaU
this is definitely not one of ken’s acorn lovers. this is a real american. ken you are a shame to humanity. do yourself a favor and disappear from santa barbara.
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» on 08.17.09 @ 10:26 PM
That video is worthy of Leni Riefenstahl with its misleading camera and editing strategies; as propaganda it’d be brilliant except for the drunk guy yelling. As new footage, completely distorts the truth of the scene.
Check out this patriotic piece here:
http://www.artbreak.com/work/show/97720-old-gory-4-ken-volok
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» on 08.17.09 @ 10:30 PM
I love how you are all bashing how people make a living. As if that has anything to do with the topic. One thing I’ve always noticed about people who are trying to cover up their tracks, is that they bounce around subjects.
First off, it doesn’t matter as long as that person is contributing back to the community. If people pay you for something and it’s in your face, they can’t be mad. You look at a painting or hear a song and know exactly what your paying for.
Santa Barbara has a very solid history with the arts. Are we saying, we’re so advanced as a species, the arts are just irrelevant anymore? Please stand on the corner of State St. with a sign that says, “Artists, leave Santa Barbara.” You’ll get punched in the face or at the very least, nobody will hug you again.
You all probably have nice little jobs that are highly acceptable in the eyes of all your acquaintances I’m sure. But it also probably goes without saying, that you would never be brave enough to come outright and call yourself an actor, musician or painter. You wouldn’t have the integrity to get the rep you need.
So, back to healthcare…
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» on 08.18.09 @ 09:47 AM
“Actually you can ask Justin yourself the extent and nature of our relationship, but i don’t think he’ll want to talk about it ;-)”
As a close personal friend of Justin Tevis I can attest to the fact that prior to Mr. Volok obsessing about Justin Tevis on this thread, Justin was not even aware of who Mr. Volok was. Since the anti-HR 3200 rally Mr. Volok has been stalking Justin Tevis, attempting to intimidate him by taking an excessive number of pictures of Justin and his campaign team, FB friending Justin under false pretense, mis-characterizing public statements made by Justin and now using this forum to imply they have some sort of prior relationship. I think Mr. Volok’s behavior is way out of line. I am not an attorney so I don’t know if the libel and stalking behavior demonstrated by Mr. Volok rises to the level of criminal behavior but it is certainly creepy to say the least. It does not reflect well for those of you who are on the same side of the argument as Mr. Volok.
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» on 08.18.09 @ 11:45 AM
I do know that Ms. Karen Jones, who is a prominent part of Tevis’ campaign team has just now opened herself up to a libel/slander suit.
Tevis most definitely knew who I am; and it is now incumbent upon Ms. Jones to either retract her statements that I was/am “stalking” Tevis, or explain herself to my attorney.
Good day Ms. Jones.
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» on 08.18.09 @ 01:24 PM
i just don’t want government expanding more so than the beast it has already become.
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» on 08.18.09 @ 02:37 PM
I just refused to be slandered by political operatives with a campaign to salvage. Karen Jones has 24 hours to retract her statements about me.
Ken Volok
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» on 08.18.09 @ 08:00 PM
And why does Karen Jones who lives in Santa Ynez so involved in a Santa Barbara City Council race? Does she know Lois Capps is not her Congressional Representative?
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» on 08.18.09 @ 09:31 PM
“prior to Mr. Volok obsessing about Justin Tevis on this thread, Justin was not even aware of who Mr. Volok was. Justin was not even aware of who Mr. Volok was. Since the anti-HR 3200 rally Mr. Volok has been stalking Justin Tevis” “It does not reflect well for those of you who are on the same side of the argument as Mr. Volok.”
I’m curious as to how Tevis knows he’s being stalked by Volok if Tevis wasn’t aware of him until just now? Stalking is a serious crime and so is the accusation.
So Volok claims he knows Tevis. This is libel? And those of us who support healthcare reform like Volok are also stalkers & libelers?
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» on 08.18.09 @ 09:53 PM
Prichett for Council!!!
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» on 08.19.09 @ 07:06 AM
“brave enough to come outright and call yourself an actor, musician or painter.” This takes bravery?
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» on 08.19.09 @ 07:14 AM
I just libeled Ken so sue me. Actually, you cant be accused of defamation if what you claim is true. Ken can’t afford healthcare, but he can afford a lawyer for frivolous lawsuits? Anything to get other people’s money instead of earning your own right Ken?
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» on 08.19.09 @ 07:18 AM
Nobody is bashing making a living as an artist. What is being bashed is when you make a choice for a career, it doesn’t pan out, and then you stick your hand out and expect it to be filled with other people’s money.
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» on 08.19.09 @ 07:32 AM
This blog has devovled into idiocy but I’ll post something useful nonetheless: For those of you who continue to be so grossly uninformed you are FOR healthcare reform—as the bill is presently crafted—take a look at a physician’s point of view. He knows WHY we should all fear it and every thinking person should read this. And read the comments below it too—by other physicians. STOP BEING IDIOTS!!! Your life—and the lives of your loved ones—are at stake. And NO, Congress (and union members) will NOT be subject to this new “plan.” http://www.epmonthly.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=522&Itemid=28
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» on 08.19.09 @ 07:34 AM
Hmm it appears that fine patriotic American Ken is stalking Karen Jones now…how does he know if she lives in Santa Ynez?
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» on 08.19.09 @ 08:29 AM
PRICHETT FOR COUNCIL!!
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» on 08.19.09 @ 09:51 AM
If I’m guilty of “stalking” by simply doing research, then Tevis and Jones are triply guilty for stalking Lois Capps. Furthermore if Tevis doesn’t like having him picture taken as candidate forums and the like then he should drop out of the race and politics now and slither back to Territory Ahead..
For those who cherry pick thru these threads, once again, I have PRIVATE health insurance.
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» on 08.19.09 @ 12:07 PM
It is interesting that someone from out of the district is organizing protests at Lois Capps office. Capps is not her representative.
It is certainly no secret that Karen Jones lives in Santa Ynez. She tells people where she lives and has publicized her address in several places- both print and online.
For example- http://ronpaul.meetup.com/264/members/9306662/
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» on 08.19.09 @ 01:02 PM
Sbnative, good stuff, too bad the rest of the town is now following the Ken Volok soap opera. What a bunch of mindless crap. Meanwhile, the hoodlums running congress and the senate continue to hide under their desk so as to avoid being beat up by senior citizens. This whole affair, Obama and the 20% of the population of liberals trying in vain to ram socialism down our throats is a national disgrace.
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» on 08.19.09 @ 06:59 PM
AN50- you sound like Tevis with the same adolescent, know-it-all, belligerent tone. It is your behavior, more than your ideology, that is repellent to most people in this community. To see how you treated that elderly gentleman so rudely- to not even offer him a few seconds on the microphone, but to keep screaming at him from your bully pulpit is about as classless a thing as I’ve ever witnessed in this town. Your parents must be so proud of your behavior.
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» on 08.19.09 @ 11:39 PM
So AN%) is actually Justin Tevis? LOL!!!!
Were you stalking Tod Capps?!?
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» on 08.20.09 @ 07:31 AM
No, I am not Tevis, but nice try DH. Wasn’t at the rally, have to work for a living, unlike you and Kenny. Now then, I do know it all and I am belligerent, so when you nit wits get a brain and stop thinking with your emotions you might read what I wrote and either consider it or stick it in your ear.
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» on 08.20.09 @ 08:02 AM
Hang in there AN50. You’re one of the few posters I can stand to read… SOAP OPERA that says it all! Meanwhile, these nit wits (good description) seem to have veered far off course of the orginal discourse (do you think they know discourse from intercourse?)Call a doctor, I’m getting a migraine…
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» on 08.20.09 @ 10:43 AM
I agree let’s get back to the original topic.
Another question I have for Tevis is, if attending the rally was such an imposition to him the WHY did he organize it?!
Here he is berating a man for having been layed off:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euTIx0kX4oM
Do we really want someone who behaves that way representing our city much less running it? I think not. Nit unless when we’re a community that supports thugs with bullhorns roaming the streets with special guests The Manson Family Singers.
The good news is that the public option is NOT dead. The Republicans have made themselves completely irrelevant now to the debate with their outright lies and disinformation. Now, a few corrupt Democrats are the only obstacle.
MORE GOOD NEWS: I will be participating in a Nt’l Endowment for the Arts project.!
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» on 08.20.09 @ 11:03 AM
who is DH? i wasn’t at the rally either - was also working but saw the vid
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» on 08.20.09 @ 11:08 AM
’ you look like you haven’t worked’
‘do you understand business’
who is this guy speaking such hatefulness and what gives him the right to be so disrespectful to the older man?
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» on 08.20.09 @ 11:27 AM
I was there, and so many misconceptions. Nowhere did it come through how embarrassingly outnumbered the anti-health insurance reform people who organized this thing were. About 300 people were there to back the Obama administration and Rep. Lois Capps, and only about 60-100 people tops showed up for anti-health insurance reform… Santa Barbara is just the wrong place to organize a right-wing NeoCon. showing. If I recall correctly, in Nov. 2008 Obama got 70% in SB and Capps got almost 70% districtwide. It was interesting to me to even see who these people were. I know a lot of people in SB and I don’t know anyone in SB who would defend the
hard-right Republicans. They must be there someplace, but I never run across them anymore—-until last Thursday. I was just there mainly to bear silent witness that the majority are for Obama and Capps, regardless of what a noisy minority rabblerouse about. The police just kept people up on the sidewalk, out of the street. Mainly, the anti- people kept in a cluster down the sidewalk. They were the ones who insisted on using the street, the one young guy having a big bullhorn off the back of a pickup truck. He droned on and on, that is where it was so hard for me to keep quiet. First, they kept citing all these detailed provisions in “the” bill. To my knowledge, there is no one bill. There are at least 5 bills, 2 of which are not even drafted(written)yet!—-one for each of the congressional committees it has to go through (3 in the House, and 2 in the Senate, or is it the reverse?)—- then come all the Congressmembers on the floor on how to amend the bills, then how to reconcile the bills. HR3200 is only the first one of those bills. I don’t for the life of me see how you can quote what “the” provision is, when it is not even finished being drafted yet! Then I was real put off by the implication that we were asking for free health care, like a child would ask for free candy. The truth is everybody would keep on paying for their own medical insurance (either in an individual policy or through an employer group policy). It is just that it would be organized so much less wastefully (the insurance and HMOs not taking a 30% cut out of the middle, the low end of the risk pool being added to the risk pool, indigent people not ending up in the ER because they could not get preventative care and then walking out on the bill and then the bill has to be cost-shifted over to all the other billpayers, standardization of reimbursal, lack of protracted disputes about whether something is covered or not). You take all of these factors, and you ought to be able to cut medical insurance costs by over 50%. There will just be a few people who absolutely will not be able to afford even these lower medical insurance premiums. So for those indigent people, they are proposing subsidies. Even there, it would be just be a partial subsidy, and those people would pay what they could, so that everybody could have it. That is the only extra money that has to be financed in the system. They keep saying One Trillion Dollars! in new financial burdens—-what they do not tell you is that even that is over ten (10) years, whereas all other cost we are accustomed to hearing about are on an annual basis. On an annual basis, this is 1/10 that. It is not a small child crying for free candy for all. We still pay for it (most of us), it’s just more efficiently organized, like every other First World country in the world, and even some Third World countries now. If you (or your employer) were paying $ 8000 per year for medical insurance, wouldn’t you be ahead if you did not have that expense anymore and witholding took $ 4000 per year out of your paycheck instead? I also was very repulsed at how they kept exclaiming “I demand my freedom to be free of government run medical insurance”. What about my freedom? What about my option? Again, the hard-right wants to enforce their option on everyone. What if I want the option to choose the public option? That is what is being proposed! If you do not like the public option, then get your own private medical insurance. That way everybody can have their own option—-why do I have to do everything your way? Why should you get your option, and I don’t get mine—-because everybody has to do it your way?
I will tell you that none of the pro-health insurance reform people were paid. Where did they come from, on less than 24 hours notice? They came from the e.mail and telephone list of the Obama election campaign volunteers last year. That has morphed into Organizing for America, which e.mailed me 5 times the afternoon before and the morning of. I have only ever seen one paid person from Organizing for America, and that was a just-graduated-from-college intern, and I have not even seen her around lately. Santa Barbara is just particularly unfertile soil to be organizing this kind of anti-Obama, anti-Capps crap, and they got called on it.
I have a lot else to say, but this is already way too long. Just one other point: I don’t blame Lois Capps at all for not having “town hall” meetings with this rabble. Right after the Mayor of Milwaukee is beaten to a pulp with a metal pipe at a State Fair and ends up in the hospital? Right after Dr. Tiller is murdered while worshipping in his church in Wichita? Your little innocent exhortations of “let’s just meet about this” are very disingenuous. I saw how you had the floor with your bullhorn 75% of the time, but were aggrieved because you could not dominate the floor 100%. I saw how a few of the anti-health reform kept sweeping through the cluster of pro-reform people trying to provoke a confrontation. I personally felt these people repeatedly bump into my back and shoulders as they repeatedly swept through the pro-reform clusters with their signs and chants.
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» on 08.20.09 @ 12:26 PM
To add to the statistics that Californianative put forth, on the national level 77% want a public option in Health Care, nearly 3 out of 4 Americans. That’s one of the mandates the voters overwhelmingly gave Obama in this past Presidential election.
In terms of political evolution, what appears to be transpiring is the death of the right-wing ideology and influence as manifested in the current Republican party. What we consider “liberal” today will be conservative tomorrow as our nation, society and culture progress.
Just as in evolution, only those who can adapt survive. Holding onto policies from 1902 won’t work in 2009.
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» on 08.20.09 @ 02:14 PM
This Tevis guy sounds like he has hit the Ayn Rand bottle too hard when he spends his whole time yelling about moochers and freeloaders.
I can understand the frustration of the opposition knowing this health bill is being purposefully rushed. And I can also understand frustration about the current state of health care (medicare included) being in shambles. But that doesn’t mean I’m going to ignore the facts to become hysterical and create conspiracies about the government ordering fat people around (I think that was Tevis’ argument if I translate gibberish properly).
The reality is that the public option is probably the best solution at the present time. UHC is not fiscally within reach unless we want to skyrocket the budget deficit for the next few years and the idea of state co-ops will falter before they can get off the ground.
Currently more than 46% of all medical service in the USA, about $1 trillion annually, is paid for directly by taxpayers. Private insurers cover 42%, and the remainder is paid out of pocket. In addition to what government pays directly, it pumps in more than $200 billion a year in tax subsidies.
According to Congressional Budget Office estimates the public option would save tax payers in the neighborhood of $150 billion in over ten years. That’s of course if people move to the public option. Savings could be much less if people don’t opt to buy it or later switch because they don’t like the coverage. But the fact is given it’s popularity it’s likely many will switch enough that a fiscal impact will be seen that is a savings to the taxpayers.
It’s not what everyone wants (both sides believe the health care reform bill is something other than what it is), but it’s sensibly the best direction to take.
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» on 08.21.09 @ 12:41 PM
More pesky facts. Only 20% of practicing physicians belong to the AMA (Obama says the AMA “supports” the “reform bill” - though no one knows which version, another point of confusion, but I digress…) Here’s yet another practicing physician who EXPLAINS what will happen to medical practices if the “bill” passes:
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» on 08.21.09 @ 04:55 PM
First of all, the doctor in the video didn’t even know how this all would play out so how could he EXPLAIN what will happen to medical practices if the “bill” passes or anything else for that matter?
Second of all, wanting free healthcare does not make you lazy, whiny or any other irrelevant word to the REAL issue. It should make sense to EVERYONE that if the U.S. is the top country, we should have free care because at this time 1/2 or more of the WHOLE WORLD has some type of universal health system in place.
No, not all of them have doctors who are raking in dough, but some are incentive based programs that make doctors want to try harder and they DO make good money.
Why do our citizens have to pay for something that all these other countries who are supposedly so behind us get free? Is it possibly because there are still too many people riding out the old, “The rich get richer, and the poor get poorer” bus? I’d say so. In my opinion, if your opposing this, your in line to lose somehow financially. Because this isn’t about any one person and their lazy situation, it’s about the whole country getting what we DESERVE because we are the baddest. It’s insulting to see Americans so high in their greed and selfishness.
And to say only 20% of AMA are practicing physicians? So your statement was Obama said “they support it” not “AMA is the official end all source for physicians and we must heed their word.” I don’t vote on anything just because somebody awesome told me it’s the only way to fly. Irrelevant.
Then the doctor goes on to describe how we’ve gotten such better technology now, as if that has anything to do with anything… If the technology is there, America will harness it just like it always has. Nobody will put up with a crippled design and I assure you, no politician is dumb enough to say OK, lets give them the free coverage, but let’s do away with our technology… Technological advances are made in labs and paid for by us already as well as separate entities, not in the emergency room.
All this talk of tax increases… Ever stop to think about what will happen to them EVEN if this doesn’t happen? Uh, they will go up anyway!
It’s fine to feel mad about having to have paid for your own coverage and so many people could possibly be getting it free soon. But don’t take it out on the rest of the Americans who take the time to see both sides, review other countries policies and wonder why we are the land of the free and we are charged for way more items than at least 1/2 of the rest of the world. Healthcare only being the tip of the iceberg.
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