- Home
- News Grid
- Local News
- Green Hawk
- Business
- Politics
- School Zone
- Nonprofits
- Missing Pets
- Multimedia
- Arts
- Movies
- Outdoors
- Sports
- News Releases
- Columnists
- Blogs
- Opinions
- Classifieds
- Advertise
- Donate
- Partners
Santa Barbara Council Gives the OK to Research Voter Survey on Bag Tax
By Giana Magnoli, Noozhawk Staff Writer | 
| Published on 12.15.2009
Paper or plastic? The question is as much a part of grocery shopping as squeezing produce to see if it’s ripe.
But Santa Barbara wants to change that.
The City Council on Tuesday discussed a solid waste committee recommendation to consider a tax on single-use bags, and ultimately voted to have the staff further research conducting a voter survey.
Many California jurisdictions have tried to ban bags, but most have rescinded the bans after being sued by organizations involved with the chemical industry, including the American Chemistry Council, said Stephen MacIntosh, the environmental services supervisor with the finance department.
He said Fairfax, Manhattan Beach, Oakland, Palo Alto and San Francisco have all attempted bans, and he didn’t know of a U.S. jurisdiction that had successfully imposed a comprehensive program, with education components and a tax.
Staff recommended that the city conduct a voter survey to determine the community’s willingness to pay a tax on single-use bags from certain retail establishments, and if so, what amount residents would be willing to pay. People could avoid the point-of-sale tax by bringing bags with them.
New taxes require voter approval. The price tag of the survey, which could be as high as $50,000, and other specifics will come back before the council for approval at a later date.
The issue of single-use bags’ low recycling rates, threat to marine wildlife and litter — especially with plastic bags — contribute to the arguments supporting the tax.
Many people — members of the council and the public — took issue with the unknown price tag for the survey, and urged being as thrifty as possible.
The city’s “Where’s Your Bag?” campaign launched in September 2008 and has since held stakeholder meetings, developed an outreach plan and had a kickoff event in August.
The campaign includes training cashiers and baggers of local participating grocery stores, handing out reusable bags and posting lots of signage.
There have also been prize patrols, which will continue for several months, at participating stores for people who bring their own bags.
Representatives of Surfrider, Jean-Michel Cousteau’s Ocean Futures Society and Santa Barbara Channelkeeper spoke in support of the tax — and any other measures to change consumer behavior regarding single-use bags.
John Dixon of Tri-County Produce has been contributing to the campaign in every sense, but he says the timing isn’t right for an additional tax. He has had signage in his store and has register buttons so cashiers can document whether someone brought their own bag.
Since starting the campaign, he said he has had an increased number of customers using their own bags.
Councilman Dale Francisco agreed with Dixon, saying it was fiscally irresponsible to raise taxes without needing to and commissioning a study for up to $50,000.
He was the sole dissenting vote.
Although City Administrator Jim Armstrong can approve projects up to $25,000, he said he will put the survey proposal on the agenda, regardless of estimated cost.
The last two meetings of the year have been canceled, so the survey most likely will be voted on by the next City Council, which takes office Jan. 12.
The third annual event “A Day Without A Bag” is coming to the South Coast in the “Where’s Your Bag?” campaign.
From 3 p.m .to 5 p.m. Thursday, free reusable bags will be available near the Paseo Nuevo shopping center on State Street. On Saturday, multiple events are planned to further environmental education about single-use bags.
There will be a swap meet from 7 a.m. to 3 p.m. at Santa Barbara High School, and another one at the same time at Ventura College, as well as activities from 11 a.m. to 3 p.m. at the Ty Warner Sea Center on Stearns Wharf.
Click here to sign up to receive Noozhawk’s free daily e-Bulletin and take our poll on the bag tax. It’s exclusive to e-Bulletin subscribers.
— Noozhawk staff writer Giana Magnoli can be reached at .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address).
Comments
Noozhawk's comments are moderated, but by posting here you accept your responsibility to follow our rules as part of Noozhawk's shared online community. Please keep your comments civil and helpful. Don't attack other readers personally, and do not use vulgar, abusive or discriminatory language. Use the "Report Abuse" link if a comment violates these standards or our Terms of Use.
» on 12.16.09 @ 06:08 AM
Dale, give us a break. NO new taxes, no study. None of the above.
You don't have permission to flag this entry.
» on 12.16.09 @ 06:32 AM
I say we Noozhawk readers submit our own opinions regarding plastic bags. And mine is that anything the City can do to get people to use reusable bags or pay to use disposables, is a good thing.
You don't have permission to flag this entry.
» on 12.16.09 @ 07:31 AM
I’m glad this article included Stephen MacIntosh’s research on the experience of other California jurisdictions. Manhattan Beach, spent funds to put a plastic bag ban measure on the ballot, the measure won, but ultimately the act was rescinded.
Google “plastic-bag coalition sues Manhattan” or view the Daily Breeze article at http://www.citymb.info/modules/ShowDocument.aspx?documentid=5320
You don't have permission to flag this entry.
» on 12.16.09 @ 07:34 AM
Is the city council majority really interested in reducing the use of one-use-bags? or are they just looking for more $$$ to feed their machine ..
The question “what amount residents would be willing to pay”? should really be “what amount would be necessary to reduce the use to the levels we want to see”
You don't have permission to flag this entry.
» on 12.16.09 @ 07:42 AM
The present City Council majority brings back memories of Jonathan Swift’s “Gulliver’s Travels” and the Academy of Science on the island of Lumbago. There “scientists” and alchemists, (of noble parentage and with nothing else to do of course), were diligently working on how to turn everything into gold including animal feces.
I would propose a modest $40,000 study to the present council in order to determine the benefits of requiring all citizens to use their old newspapers as toilet paper. This would obviously save numerous trees from destruction and at the same time properly dispose of tons of local newsprint that is devoid of any meaningful content.
Fortunately the citizens have elected some new minds to the Council in the last election. I only wonder if it was enough to turn the tide of thinking from the inane and utopian sublime to meaningful solutions about real and current problems like the budget crisis, “traffic calming” projects that create tinker toy obstacles in the name of “transportation progress”, gang warfare on our streets, or even the hords of chronic panhandlers populating the downtown and beachfront areas?
Some local “green” and “sustainable” entrepenuer could apply for grants and bed tax monies and create an agency ( with a $175,000 a year directorship of course ) which would paint curbs with the legend “no plastic bags please” or “plastic bags flow to the ocean” or some other catchy phrase worthy of a multi-million dollar grant and a new bureaucracy to run it!
Perhaps a new battle cry is in order for those fed up with the continuing lunacy. How about “REMEMBER THE BLUE LINE”!
You don't have permission to flag this entry.
» on 12.16.09 @ 08:06 AM
I’m glad this article included Stephen MacIntosh’s research on the experience of other California jurisdictions. Manhattan Beach, spent funds to put a plastic bag ban measure on the ballot, the measure won, but ultimately the act was rescinded.
Google “plastic-bag coalition sues Manhattan” or view the Daily Breeze article at http://www.citymb.info/modules/ShowDocument.aspx?documentid=5320
You don't have permission to flag this entry.
» on 12.16.09 @ 08:23 AM
In France, most of the supermarket chains have voluntarily stopped giving free plastic bags. You have to buy a sturdy one. Why is it such a hassle to bring your own bag or tote to the store?
You don't have permission to flag this entry.
» on 12.16.09 @ 08:56 AM
Wake up America you are being abused by the liberals—Tax-Tax Tax—think about—how much of your paycheck after payroll and all the other 100 Plus taxes do you give to the poorly run government??-85%—They are still broke—cut government 50% and they will still be over staffed..
You don't have permission to flag this entry.
» on 12.16.09 @ 08:58 AM
Nothing worse that having to carry around those stupid tote bags. Makes me feel like I’m lugging some sort of man purse.
You don't have permission to flag this entry.
» on 12.16.09 @ 09:01 AM
Agree COMPLETELY with “JAX”, personally I bring reusable bags MOST of the time, but sometimes I forget them or need the plastic bags from the stores for trash bags. Last thing I want to do is be taxed on it.
You don't have permission to flag this entry.
» on 12.16.09 @ 10:26 AM
$50,000 to do a study on grocery bags while there are people being furloughed and taking pay cuts? I’m sure the money could be better spent and the last thing we need is another tax. People already have the option to bring their own bags and I think that the ones who want to are already doing it. If you want more involvement perhaps there should be an incentive program at the store level, not a tax.
You don't have permission to flag this entry.
» on 12.16.09 @ 10:38 AM
frank frost;
It is not a hassle unless you have a family and your outing at the store fills five or six bags. Or, if your like some of the idlers, you have enough free time to go to the grocery store every day or maybe twice a day.
By the way, how do you “greenies”, always sucking on a water bottle, manage to carry those 24 packs of bottled water in your little cloth bags while riding a bicycle and drinking a super-mocha-latte coffee from Starbucks?
You don't have permission to flag this entry.
» on 12.16.09 @ 10:43 AM
I agree we should use reusable bags but do we really have the extra money to spend on a study of this? Seems like a ridiculous time to be suggesting this.
Also, maybe I read the article wrong but it seems like Dale Francisco was the only one who voted against the study?
You don't have permission to flag this entry.
» on 12.16.09 @ 10:48 AM
Real Men let the plastic blow to the ocean and get ingested by sea turtles.
You don't have permission to flag this entry.
» on 12.16.09 @ 11:06 AM
Yet another anti-business consumer punishment stupid idea from the Silly Council. OK fine I simply will not shop in Santa Barbara any more if this thing passes. I am sure not running home for a hippie tote if there happens to be something I run across to buy downtown. I will simply make a note on my iphone to purchase the item on line or back in Goleta. Why should I pay extra to support the Santa Barbara tax and spend machine? Already paying enough in parking time and fines and gas to push through the traffic impediments. Never shopping downtown again to support the agendas of these tax and spend buffoons on the Santa Barbara Council who would spend it on surveys and studies that can be done for a fraction of the cost with a simple on line poll. Or tally the comments to this article.
You don't have permission to flag this entry.
» on 12.16.09 @ 12:22 PM
Why are plastic bags always portrayed as “Single-Use”
Let’s think about some factual statistics:
90% of people reuse plastic grocery bags.
60% are reused as trash can liners - pet waste containment, lunch and gym bags, etc.
Of the remaining 40% available for disposal, 30% are being recycled at store take back programs (already a law in CA. AB2449) In addition to recycling plastic bags, consumers can bring back newspaper & dry cleaning bags, towel tissue and bottle overwrap and any other clean PE films.
So let’s see - a 72% reuse - recycling rate (aluminum can recycling is at 50%). So- let’s tax ‘em! Not only does Santa Barbara generate income - so do the retailers that will sell more “reusable bags” (that are plastic BTW). According to the US Customs Department over 2.88 Billion reusable bags have been imported into the USA in the past decade with over 500 million imported annually from China alone. Retailers will also sell more plastic consumer plastic trash bags adding to their bottom line.
So who pays - you the consumer not only in taxes, but also in the necessity to purchase alternative products.
I would think legislators should have more important issues to think about other than figuring a way to squeeze more money out of their constituants.
You don't have permission to flag this entry.
» on 12.16.09 @ 12:33 PM
Good for you Dale!! This is ridiculous! I can’t believe the City wants to spend $50,000 (or thereabouts) on a study to see if they should put a shopping bag tax on the ballot. What a waste of money. Especially about something like shopping bags. If there was a tax, the people who bring their own bags now would still do it and the people that don’t bring their own bags now probably don’t care about the tax and would pay it and still get the plastic or paper bag anyway. So…the goal of the tax…to reduce the number of bags…probably would not be impacted. It’s just a sneaky way to add another tax onto people to increase revenue instead of doing the important work of cutting expenses. Plus, it makes everyone feel great that they are trying to help the environment when it probably won’t help at all!
You don't have permission to flag this entry.
» on 12.16.09 @ 12:42 PM
I have friends in other California communities who do not believe me when I tell them that Santa Barbara has the most inept City Council in the State. I will email them this article as further proof that once again, the City Council (with the exception of Dale) continues to ignore real issues like crime, gangs, budget concerns and economic conditions, to again focus on a ‘feel good, we did the right thing’ issue.
You don't have permission to flag this entry.
» on 12.16.09 @ 12:42 PM
I appreciate the value of people keeping reusable bags. I understand it helps the environment and encourages more sustainable behavior.
I don’t appreciate the approach that relies on government to shift consumer behavior through a tax. I further don’t appreciate $25-50K to commission a study on if and how to best tax me.
City Council: please focus on the pressing matters of balancing our budget before you go and spend more money and/or think of ways to tax the community. I have not historically been a Dale Francisco fan, but lately he seems to be my only representation when it comes to budgetary concerns.
You don't have permission to flag this entry.
» on 12.16.09 @ 01:02 PM
STOP needless spending. What do you council members not understand.
You don't have permission to flag this entry.
» on 12.16.09 @ 02:54 PM
“Councilwoman Iya Falcone, who serves on the Solid Waste Committee, said she hopes that people would “see past” their immediate concerns about the cost and instead “look to the future.” It would be “shortsighted,” she said, not to conduct a study to determine how people would feel about the tax.” (SBNP 12-16-09)
The whole point of a tax is to go beyond what people would be “willing” to pay, in order the change their behavior. Not one cent needs to be spent on a survey - an educated guess should suffice.
Better yet, if the stores are smart, they would get together and institute a substantial charge for all one-use bags instead of offering them for free, keeping the government out of it. (In my dreams, they would all stop stocking “bottled” water as well!)
You don't have permission to flag this entry.
» on 12.16.09 @ 03:18 PM
“Councilwoman Iya Falcone, who serves on the Solid Waste Committee, said she hopes that people would “see past” their immediate concerns about the cost and instead “look to the future.” It would be “shortsighted,” she said, not to conduct a study to determine how people would feel about the tax.” (SBNP 12-16-09)
The whole point of a tax is to go beyond what people would be “willing” to pay, in order the change their behavior. Not one cent needs to be spent on a survey - an educated guess should suffice.
Better yet, if the stores are smart, they would get together and institute a substantial charge for all one-use bags instead of offering them for free, keeping the government out of it. (In my dreams, they would all stop stocking “bottled” water as well!)
You don't have permission to flag this entry.
» on 12.16.09 @ 04:28 PM
Please cut the salary and staff 40% this will help balance your budget, and STOP raising our taxes—liberals think we havn’t had enough of the tax and spend our money policy’s—I know many Democrats who are changing party’s because of government salary’s and penion waste—who works for whom?????SERVANTS??
You don't have permission to flag this entry.
» on 12.16.09 @ 04:57 PM
So…we tax bags (not to actually reduce plastic use, but to raise revenue) we tax water bottles ( no environmental effect we will buy them anyway, along with Coke, Ice tea…milk.. ) and the liberal Utopian dream of a perfect world has been achieved? Not quite. This is only the beginning of the “CHANGE”. It’s a test to see just how much they can extract from you to support their “progressive” agendas and redistribute your modest hard earned wealth.
Has anyone noticed that water and groceries are not the only thing that is encased in plastic? Where does it stop - every single other beverage, packaged meats? packaged cheese? ? Lotion toothpaste, deoderant shampoo.. screws at home depot. Is anyone taxing every single other product that is packaged in plastic ( I can’t think of a single on that isn’t) and every single disposable plastic item (toothbrushes, single use shavers, shampoo bottles). Talk about short sighted! There already IS a tax, it’s called a sales tax. Go after the manufacturers that package everything in plastic to reduce shoplifting - go after the manufacturers of plastic goods and those that use excessive plastic packaging don’t punish the consumers more than they are already being punished..
I knew this was coming after they began to nag us with the “Where’s your bag?” campaign. Where are all the Sea turtles so I can feed them plastic bags and make this silliness stop?? I am taking one of those Galapogos tourist cruises armed with bags just to get back at them. When are the grown ups getting on the Council?
You don't have permission to flag this entry.
» on 12.16.09 @ 04:58 PM
50k !!! This is exactly the kind of irresponsible leadership our placating, weak leaders seem to gravitate to every meeting.
What a joke. For every loose bag floating around town their are thousands of water bottles. Are we going to cut off our noses to spite our face? I am all for a bag ban but 50k to some over paid consultant is not only irresponsible its the very definition of frivolous.
You’re all fired. (i wish it was that easy)
You don't have permission to flag this entry.
» on 12.16.09 @ 05:16 PM
Its amazing how stupid some of these I Hate Liberal commentators are… Don’t they know that we are screwed by all politicians? Right or left they all take your money. The left is just a bit more upfront about it while the right takes it from your wallet while shaking your hand,smiling and preaching to you about the virtues of church or…
You don't have permission to flag this entry.
» on 12.16.09 @ 05:48 PM
What a waste of my taxpayers money. Deal with much bigger issues first.
You don't have permission to flag this entry.
» on 12.16.09 @ 06:27 PM
This study and potential tax is FANTASTIC NEWS…..for the store owners in Goleta!
You don't have permission to flag this entry.
» on 12.16.09 @ 06:34 PM
Instead of spending $50K on a study. Use the money to buy reusable bags, stock to storesvand give them to people that forget their bags.
You don't have permission to flag this entry.
» on 12.16.09 @ 07:57 PM
Back in 1966, George Harrison addressed the issue at hand in this music video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzLry3ABpV0
You don't have permission to flag this entry.
» on 12.16.09 @ 08:21 PM
Got it..
You don't have permission to flag this entry.
» on 12.16.09 @ 08:47 PM
Why do we need a study. Just do it.
You don't have permission to flag this entry.
» on 12.16.09 @ 08:55 PM
In The Netherlands shoppers bring their own bags to food stores. If you have none, the store will sell you a good size bag. It avoids all these problems of discarding plastic bags.
You don't have permission to flag this entry.
» on 12.17.09 @ 05:55 AM
I think the City is on to something here. Expanding the concept would allow them to tax ALL single use items: toilet paper, gasoline again, the oxygen we breathe, hot food, movie tickets (don’t they already?), parking tickets; here’s a good one: TAX RETURNS!!! How about knapkins? And sandbags - with all the fire area protection going on this should be very profitable. Honestly, why do we elect these people? Why do they always look to us to bail themselves out? Taking responsibily for their own failures would be a good thing.
And one last thing, why do they always hire staff that has no long standing vested interest in our community? People a few years out of college loaded with academic ideas and very little if no real world experience. If these kids didn’t bring up these ridiculous ideas the council would never think of them on their own.
You don't have permission to flag this entry.
» on 12.17.09 @ 07:46 AM
Please do not spend the $50K on a study. It is clear that something needs to be done about the waste from plastic and paper. How about the idea others have mentioned that you hand out reusable bags with the money or sell them at the store? Also, if the politician just put a little pressure on the big box stores like Vons,Ralphs and Albertsons to contribute to the local effort we may not have to spend any money. Then wait awhile and determine how much impact that had. If not enough impact then consider something else.
You don't have permission to flag this entry.
» on 12.17.09 @ 09:02 AM
So, I think we’re forgetting a couple of things here. Firstly, and most importantly, Marty Blum and her ilk need a legacy. The blue line didn’t get painted and the ridiculous traffic calming devices don’t seem to have satisfied their need, so now it’s a plastic bag survey and tax. What brilliant city managers they’ve been! Secondly, to the suggestions that the responsibility and cost be passed on to the grocery stores themselves…...who really thinks that any cost absorbed by the grocery stores won’t be passed on to the consumer?
You don't have permission to flag this entry.
» on 12.17.09 @ 11:10 AM
Yes, Dale is the only Council member who voted against this idiotic measure, seeing it for what it is - a sneaky attempt to raise taxes.
You don't have permission to flag this entry.
» on 12.18.09 @ 11:13 AM
I am so upset reading about all the wasteful spending.
Let’s spend every dollar we can on improving our schools.
You don't have permission to flag this entry.
» on 12.18.09 @ 01:06 PM
I like the approach used by the Netherlands as mentioned by Deborah ...
No more plastic bags supplied by the stores, you have to bring your own or buy a reusable bag at the point of sale.
This is a win-win since the tax-insecure people won’t throw tantrums and we get away from throwing away so much plastic.
I passed by a table @Paseo Nuevo yesterday where they were giving away free reusable shopping bags. I picked up one which scrunches down into a little ball and easily fits into a tight pair of jeans. So no more whining about how inconvenient they are!
You don't have permission to flag this entry.
» on 12.18.09 @ 03:03 PM
I am aghast that the City Council spent taxpayer money to even sit there and discuss creating a tax on bags. Seriously? I am reusing plastic bags, bringing my own bags most places, or plain refusing the bags the store offers and putting the item in my pocket, stroller, carry it out, etc. However, to create a tax ia asinine and to spend the money on a poll is a complete waste of resources.
Perhaps the City Council could be working to support our teachers and schools, emergency personnel, or stopping gangs and violence?
You don't have permission to flag this entry.
» on 12.18.09 @ 04:30 PM
I cant believe these tax and spend nuts—Liberalism at its worst..
You don't have permission to flag this entry.
» on 12.18.09 @ 06:16 PM
A tax on condoms? I hear the Sea Turtles love ‘em. Much tastier and chewier than shopping bags.
You don't have permission to flag this entry.
» on 12.18.09 @ 06:24 PM
I have no problem with a bag tax. Why? Because I almost always bring my reusable bags to the grocery store (just leave them in the car so you won’t forget). And on small purchases, I just decline the bag. Most of the time you don’t need them anyways!
Taxation is routinely used to raise income for governments. That is the cost of living in an orderly society. But taxation is also used to discourage negative and/or costly social behaviors. An easy example is the cigarette tax (yes, smokers pay a dear cost themselves as do their fellow non-smoking taxpayers who foot their health bills). Another example are bottle/container taxes that various states levy to discourage littering and encourage recycling.
Now, its estimated that 100 billion non-biodegradable plastic bags are thrown away by Americans each year. If one accepts that we shouldn’t be doing this as a society, then you have to think of some way to effectively discourage/minimize that behavior, or you have to make it not legally possible.
The Noozehawk article implies there are some kind of legal issues associated with implementing a ban (which I agree with arroyo would be the way to go). So I suspect the tax idea is a way to get around the legalities of a ban (someone correct me if that’s wrong). If that’s the only choice, then let’s make the tax go towards primary education. Or some other area where Prop 13 is shafting local cities.
Half the people whimpering about taxes here are probably old farts like me who have been sitting on their homes for decades and not paying their fair share of property taxes anyways!
You don't have permission to flag this entry.
» on 12.19.09 @ 11:57 AM
I’m not an old fart. I’m a very educated, politically active, young thing that is very concerned about this narrow-sighted, misguided attempt to raise taxes.
First of all, if the City Council believes its appropriate to tax this single-use item, what’s next? Many things are made of plastic, consumed by the masses, and end up as litter.
Secondly, why is the City Council addressing THIS issue when I as a constituent am more concerned about a balanced and efficient government, especially during this recession.
It seems my generation has a heightened awareness of environmental issues, which is crucial given the negative effects humans have had on this planet. At the same time, I would like to think that effective and sustainable solutions don’t come in the form of merely adding taxes. Oh, and spending tens of thousands of dollars on a voter survey.
You don't have permission to flag this entry.
» on 12.19.09 @ 12:08 PM
“East Beach”
If the old farts like you, (to use your words) don’t think they are paying enough taxes on their homes then by all means PAY MORE! Just send a bigger check, say twice what your billed and I doubt the tax man will decline your gift.
Most of us think real property taxes, sales tax, gas taxes, utility tax, personal property tax, federal income tax, state income tax, excise tax, bed tax, inheritance taxes and a few others, including government “fees” and charges which are, in effect, hidden taxes, are more than enough. When added up for the average wage earner they are over 50 percent of what they earn.
As far as your statistics about plastic bags, given the propensity of most “progressives”, “liberals”, and “sustainable greenies” to lie and exaggerate to further their agenda, under the mantra that the idylic ends justifies the means, I put little faith in citations to computer generated projections like those conjured up by their ilk!
Lastly, these “progressive” green advocates often are just out to scam a buck from whatever the current politically correct fad is.
Take, for example, the former head of the California Senate and Democratic Party Chairman Art Torres. Termed out, he had no trouble getting apointed to a part time job as the Vice Chairman of the commission to dole out stem cell research funds. You should recall that was the $3,000,000,000 (billion with a “B”) bond issue we voted for on the ballot a couple of years ago. It was the cause celebre’ of all good progressives at that time! The Hollywood liberal Democratic minions were touting it to the very end.
That part time gig is now worth a paltry $225,000 a year. Not bad for meeting once in awhile to decide tough issues like, who should get that stem cell research money, that is, whatever may be left after “administrative expenses” like Torres cut! In fact it lends new meaning to the title “VICE” Chairman!
I wonder if Mr. Torres uses re-usable shopping bags or maybe he has his taxpayer funded housekeeper or chauffeur take those bags with them when they go shopping.
Thank goodness we have such guardians of the people and the peoples’ money protecting us so well as they do, but we probably will have to have some more taxes to pay for it. What was it you said “Eastbeach” ? “That is just the cost of living in an orderly society”!
You don't have permission to flag this entry.
» on 12.20.09 @ 11:15 AM
The solution is simple, ban the bags and the problem will solve itself. No need for taxes or anything else. FIrst time you buy your own, then you have them for ever! Duh!
this is another effort by staff to find a source of revenue to underwrite another worthless $80,000+ per year position or two. They’ve been successful before at it before…
Just look at the City’s so-called recycling program which is simply welfare for the media and dumb-ass UCSB ES majors who could never get a job in a real economy.
Another start toward a solution is to immediately reduce every public employee salary/benefit package that is over $80,000 to $79,999, and to simply eliminate public employee pensions or tax them 100%. It’s our money and it’s going to have to be given back, one way or another.
You don't have permission to flag this entry.
» on 12.20.09 @ 12:37 PM
The two previous posters don’t understand one point which is ... if the legal issues associated with a ban are mitigated, then you’d buy a bag at the point of sale if you really needed one. Alternatively, if there is no ban, then you’d pay a tax for the bag supplied by the store. Either way, you pay! Would you rather have that money go to the store or to help fund local schools?
And under the latter scenario, its not like you *have to* pay the tax! Just bring a reusable bag or don’t use a bag at all.
You don't have permission to flag this entry.
» on 12.20.09 @ 01:55 PM
“... As far as your statistics about plastic bags, given the propensity of most “progressives”, “liberals”, and “sustainable greenies” to lie and exaggerate to further their agenda ...”
—JAX
The 100 billion bags per year estimate comes from the Worldwatch Institute, a well-respected non-profit research group based in Washington DC. Worldwatch is often quoted by the Wall Street Journal and the BBC.
You don't have permission to flag this entry.
» on 12.20.09 @ 02:06 PM
” ... I’m a very educated, politically active, young thing that is very concerned about this narrow-sighted, misguided attempt to raise taxes.”
—Dear EastBeach
I’m afraid you have that wrong. As I understand it, the goal of the proposal is ***NOT*** to raise tax revenue! The goal is to provide incentive for shoppers to reuse their own shopping bags, given that they won’t do it on their own.
I don’t know anyone at City Hall, but I’m sure if you asked them, they would be happy if we all stopped throwing away plastic bags and ***ZERO*** bag taxes were raised.
And for the record, I will repeat that I believe a simple ban on throw-away bags is the best solution. But as the Noozhawk article says, it appears the plastics industry is very willing to go to court to prevent bans from happening.
You don't have permission to flag this entry.
» on 12.20.09 @ 03:09 PM
“East Beach”
As an apparent “old fart” you are totally out of touch with those of us who grocery shop, usually weekly, for our families and need 5 to 7 bags, not just one or two. The groceries are usually wheeled to the car by shopping cart and loaded up bag by bag where they remain until unloaded at home bag by bag.
I guess one could avoid using any bags at all as you suggest by just dumping everything into the shopping cart and piling it up in a mound, hoping of course, that the eggs don’t break, the bread doesn’t get flattened by the canned and bottled goods and nothing spills or falls out and gets broken, etc.
Then the shopping carts could be designed so they had an elevating and tilting mechanism by which the groceries could just be dumped into the car like a small skip loader. I think they were working on such a device at the Academy of Science on Lombago, that Island I mentioned above in an earlier post!
Or perhaps those of us that are not retired “old farts” and who still have to work every day, could get our employers to pay for half day off twice a week for “shopping leave” during which time we could bring our groceries back in cloth re-useable bags. The unions could negotiate such a contract provision.
Maybe we could even take these cloth bags full of groceries home by bike on the million dollar bike lanes we have, or by riding on the highly tax-subsidized buses filled with the transportation dependant folks or perhaps even lug them home a few miles on foot using the “pedestrian friendly” streets replete with “bulb outs”, roundabouts, chicanes and speed bumps which, (no worries) are now being deftly plied by totally totally “calmed traffic”.
Seems like the use of grocery bags (or non-use), has now become one of the favorite causes de jour and one of the more pressing “issues” of the liberal-progressives in the community. This plastic and paper bag problem (or what these politically correct progressives would call an “issue”)can be used to dominate local politics thus avoiding considering the real pressing issues facing Santa Barbara today. Indeed it is apparent that issues like, unemployemnt, taxes and fees, pandhandlers, gang wars, and the “Disney-fication” of downtown and beachfront Santa Barbara are all matters the politicos rather not discuss at all!
If you think about it, there really is no limit to the potential cross-over solutions which City staffers couod employ to avoid a “bag tax”. Why not have the chronic panhandling bums inhabiting downtown and the beachfront collect pastic and paper bags for which they could gain admission to the homeless shelter or the City could pay them food vouchers (excluding liquor of course) for every so many plastic or paper bags they turn in.
Panhandlers and convicted gang bangers and taggers could be sentenced to “bag detail”. That way they would be busy every day collecting some of those billions of plastic bags you mentioned and not begging and pestering people walking the streets, stabbing each other and spray painting tags and bizaar hyroglyphic symbols on all the bare walls about town!
You don't have permission to flag this entry.
» on 12.20.09 @ 08:42 PM
Will all the off base taxing and raising fees by the current council let’s hope this changes with the new council. However if it does not change we should all ban together to stop the madness—let’s create some new ballot items
1) Set budget at 10% under last year revenue (this seems safe and should allow us to build a reserve)
2) No new taxes without 2/3 voter approval
You don't have permission to flag this entry.
» on 12.21.09 @ 09:17 AM
Jax and his “ilk” have really managed to devolve, sidetrack and polarize the issue. Perfect. Just like fanatic, right-wing nut cases like to do, along with name-calling.
Plastic bags are one of those “socialize the costs, privatize the profits” kind of things some people apparently support. Even those of us who use our own bags have to pay for the plastic bags these clods can’t figure out how to not use.
Too bad the chemical industry forces us to figure out a way around their scheme that costs $50,000 plus taxes everyone. You should be going after the chemical industry’s suing places that don’t want the bags rather than trying to force the rest of us to support the chemical industry.
You don't have permission to flag this entry.
» on 12.21.09 @ 06:15 PM
Careful;
If I understand your last missive, anyone that is fed up with the idiotic machinations of the present council majority is guilty of “polarizing” issues. Sounds like name calling and finger pointing to me.
You are likely one of these folks who float an idea and no matter how stupid and unwanted it is, you believe there should be some kind of “concensus” or compromise no matter what. If you don’t get it you attack the messenger!
This is the essence of “political correctness” dogma. The fact is, that there are many who don’t buy into that sheepish and spineless mentality. They understand the difference between right and wrong and are not about to compromise principles no matter what names they are called (e.g. right wing nuts, etc.)
They understand that, however righteous you may think your current cause is, the ends does not justify the means. The new morality IS NOT that, everything is all right as long as it is not illegal. One of the crisis facing America today is one that is far greater than so-called global warming. It is the stifling of facts and truth for fear of being accused of being “politically incorrect”, or perhaps a host of other names often employed by the self-rightous, holier-than-thou”, “sustainable”. “green”, “politically correct crowd”.
It is abundantly clear that the visionary founding fathers of this great nation never envisioned that the government would be telling anyone what kind of bags they should use to carry their groceries home in and if they made a different choice they should be punished with a “tax”!
Least of all did they ever concieve that fabricating and exagerating facts in order to arrive at the intended objective, was ever a permissable tactic.
You don't have permission to flag this entry.
» on 12.22.09 @ 10:56 AM
@jax, you obviously didn’t understand. Try to be reality based.
You don't have permission to flag this entry.
» on 12.22.09 @ 03:45 PM
Careful, “careful”. You think that using terms like “fanatic, right-wing nut cases” is not name-calling? A bit of pot and kettle there, I’d say. Why don’t you just make your own statement about plastic bags and let that be sufficient.
You don't have permission to flag this entry.
» on 12.22.09 @ 07:03 PM
@ JL: Just trying to put a point on it. Thanks for understanding.
You don't have permission to flag this entry.
More Local News »
County Supervisors Approve First Reading of Oil Pipeline Agreement for Venoco
Next week's public meeting the last step before the company can begin operations
Goleta Seeks Public Input on Law Enforcement Services
Participants are needed for two focus groups scheduled for Feb. 15
City Council Authorizes Design Contract for Redevelopment of Cliff Drive Intersection
Tuesday's meeting is dedicated to Santa Barbara filmmaker Mike deGruy, who died in a helicopter crash; a memorial service is planned for Sunday
Goleta Woman Accused of Having Sex with Teen Boy
Sheriff's Department says victim recently came forward about 2008 relationship
Goleta Police Warn Public About Recent Home Burglaries
Witnesses report seeing a suspect going door to door in the neighborhood around Scripps Crescent Street
Weather: Fair 54.0º
Search Noozhawk »
