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Lou Cannon: States Take a Right Turn, Advance Conservative Agendas Under Republican Control
Rick Perry’s emergence as a serious contender for the Republican presidential nomination is a sign of the times. The Texas governor’s leap into national prominence was made possible by the economic performance of his state, which has created jobs by the bushel full while the nation as a whole is losing them.
How much credit Perry deserves is an open question, but his candidacy brought the jobs issue to the center of the national political debate, where it should have been all along. Recent polls show Perry and former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney, the other presidential candidate who talks about job creation, running away from the rest of the Republican field.
On jobs and myriad other issues, it makes sense for Republicans to turn to the states for salvation. The news this year has been dominated by natural disasters, upheaval in the Middle East and political gridlock in Washington, D.C. All this has helped panic the markets and pushed the United States to the brink of another recession — not that most Americans think we ever really emerged from the last one.
Meanwhile, news from the state capitals has drifted to the back burner after early controversy over the successful efforts of Republican Gov. Scott Walker of Wisconsin, backed by a GOP-controlled Legislature, to curb the collective bargaining power of most public employees.
In the ensuing months, Republican-controlled state legislatures and governors have taken the nation on a conservative course on issues that, in addition to collective bargaining, include pension reform, abortion, voter identification, gun control and immigration. All this was made possible by the 2010 elections, in which Republicans gained more than 740 state legislative seats and a net of six governorships. Going into the election, the GOP held the legislative majority in both houses in 14 states. After it was over, the Republicans controlled both houses in 26 states and governorships in 29.
The most ballyhooed GOP electoral achievement in 2010 was its gain of 63 congressional seats and control of the House of Representatives. But Democrats retained the Senate and still have President Barack Obama in the White House. In the states they control, Republicans faced no such obstacles and have, on the whole, made the most of their opportunities.
There are historical antecedents for state leadership when there is divided government in Washington while one party holds a commanding majority in the statehouses. The most notable precedent was in the early years of the Great Depression, especially from 1930 to 1932, when Democrats controlled many state governments while Republican Herbert Hoover was president. Democrat Franklin D. Roosevelt was elected in 1932, and soon after his inauguration in March 1933 launched the New Deal.
Many of the transformational measures of this manifold social experiment — unemployment insurance, public works programs, deposit insurance, even Social Security — were modeled after successful programs that had been tried first in the states, especially FDR’s own state of New York during the governorship of Al Smith. It may seem odd to mention the conservative Perry and the progressive Smith in the same sentence, but both provided economic leadership in their states when it was lacking in Washington.
What is happening now, however, is a different sort of debate than the one that occurred during the Depression, when businesses and farms were failing and Americans turned to government as a last resort. Today, after decades of deficit spending that was briefly interrupted in the 1990s and then accelerated at full throttle during the presidencies of George W. Bush and Obama, there is broad public understanding that the federal government has been living far beyond its means.
Conservatives say the spending spigot must be turned off quickly to prevent the United States from going the way of Greece. Republicans are counting on their eternal prescription of lower taxes and private enterprise to jump-start the lagging economy and avoid a new recession. Liberals would prefer a second federal stimulus program even though the results of the first one were less than glorious. Democrats acknowledge the necessity of eventually reducing the deficit but say the immediate priority is to create jobs.
Obama, with no hope of winning congressional approval of a duplicate of his first stimulus bill, the $787 billion American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009, has settled for a more modest proposal, which he is careful to call a “jobs” program rather than a “stimulus,” priced at $447 billion. Even that figure is inflated. More than half the benefits of the Obama proposal, whatever it is called, come from continuing a holiday on Social Security payroll taxes — with a partial extension of the tax break to employers — plus extension of unemployment benefits.
There have been echoes of the deficit debate in the states, which are limited by budget-balancing requirements that do not apply to the federal government. Republican dominance has contributed to frugal policies in which budgets are balanced more by spending cuts than tax increases. Partisanship on budgetary issues, however, is not as stark in the states as in the nation’s capital. In New York state, for instance, Democratic Gov. Andrew Cuomo shunned calls from liberals in his own party (and The New York Times) to extend a tax surcharge on high incomes and instead won overwhelming bipartisan support for a prudent budget that wiped out a $10 billion deficit and reduced spending on Medicaid, the federal-state program that provides health care for the poor.
Indeed, most states, regardless of party control, have had to reduce spending for the neediest as the stumbling economy has driven families into poverty and increased the Medicaid rolls. More than 11,000 of the poorest families in Michigan have been told that in October they will lose cash-assistance grants the state has long provided. California and Arizona have made it harder for low-income residents to receive cash grants; Florida and Missouri are reducing the duration of jobless benefits for laid-off workers.
Where the GOP domination in the states has had the most impact is less on economic issues than on political ones such as voter identification, which Republicans describe as an effort to control fraud and Democrats see as an attempt to restrict access and depress voter turnout. There’s not much evidence for either proposition: voter fraud prosecutions are infrequent and turnout has increased in some states since voter ID laws went into effect. But in an era when identification is routinely required for travel and purchases, Republicans have the stronger political case. Six states in which the Republicans hold a legislative edge passed voter ID laws this year, bringing to 29 the number of states requiring identification at the polls, including 14 that require a photo.
The Republican ascendancy in the states has also spilled over onto social issues, predictably on abortion and somewhat surprisingly on prison sentencing reform. State after state is rebelling against the high cost of jailing minor offenders. Kentucky passed legislation (HB 463) to offer nonviolent drug offenders treatment instead of prison, a measure spearheaded by state Senate President David Williams, R-Burkesville, who has since become the GOP nominee for governor.
Various sentencing reforms also became law in four states — Georgia, Oklahoma, South Carolina and Texas — with Republican-run legislatures and GOP governors, as well as in Connecticut, where Democrats hold both the governorship and legislative majorities.
Opponents of abortion advanced their goals in several states where Republicans are in control. Indiana, Kansas and North Carolina cut off funding to Planned Parenthood and other social clinics that provide abortion. Texas required a doctor to perform a sonogram before an abortion (HB 15), while Alabama, Idaho, Indiana, Kansas and Oklahoma banned abortions after the 20th week of pregnancy. Abortion rights advocates have fought back in the courts. A federal judge ordered Kansas to restore federal funds to Planned Parenthood and another judge put the Indiana law on hold. Still another federal judge blocked a portion of the Texas law that required doctors to describe what they found on the sonograms to women who are having abortions.
Democrats have had no such luck in legal challenges to collective bargaining restrictions. The Wisconsin Supreme Court upheld the bargaining ban on a 4-3 vote. Ohio passed an even stricter ban on collective bargaining (SB 5) that includes police officers and firefighters, which the Wisconsin law does not. Indiana also extended an existing ban to teachers (SB 575). Several other states tinkered with collective bargaining laws, generally at the expense of employees.
Whether the right turn in state legislatures foreshadows Republican victories in the 2012 presidential and congressional elections remains to be seen. But with the economy mired in slow growth and high unemployment, and the White House struggling to gain traction, Democrats have as much reason as Republicans did during the Depression to worry about their political prospects.
— Summerland resident Lou Cannon is a longtime national political writer and acclaimed presidential biographer. His most recent book — co-authored with his son, Carl — is Reagan’s Disciple: George W. Bush’s Troubled Quest for a Presidential Legacy. Cannon also is an editorial adviser to State Net Capitol Journal, which published this column originally.
Comments
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» on 09.19.11 @ 08:36 PM
So true Lou. Great article.
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» on 09.19.11 @ 09:37 PM
Good one Lou.
My prediction that I can make with a high degree of confidence: Democrats are going to get their clocks cleaned again in 2012. The Senate is gone, there is no way they can hold it and its possible for a 60 seat GOP Senate, Democrats will probably lose a few house seats as well, no way they take it back.
Hopefully the GOP can govern with a bit more responsibly this time, it will be their last chance if they don’t.
Obama is probably toast, the electoral math for him is bad and getting worse by the day. This guy is an anvil around the necks of Democrats nationwide and at all levels of govt. The nation got a clear view of what the progressives/liberals/statists had in mind for us when Obama was elected and let Pelosi and Reid rule the roost like a bunch of unsupervised teenagers with the keys to the liquor cabinet and a credit card, and the public doesn’t like what they see. There is nothing that can change that at this point. IMHO its baked in the cake and these teenagers are going to get a spanking.
CA may not get the message yet but nationally its game over. Turn out the the lights, the liberal party is over. Not a moment too soon.
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» on 09.20.11 @ 07:59 AM
I would add a caution to conservatives who believe that they are seeing light at the end of the tunnel. The real threat to this country isn’t Democrats or Republicans, it’s the overarching view of lawmakers who hold to progressive values. There is only one thing worse than a left-leaning socialist government, and that’s a right-leaning socialist government. The Nazis in 1930s Germany come to mind here.
What decades ago used to be the progressive hidden agenda and raised the ire of Sen. McCarthy, is now well-situated in our psyche with the Progressive Caucus in Congress. Modern progressives are elites who believe that the government should be in absolute control, making everyday decisions for citizens across the country. It’s about their schools that don’t teach kids how to think, just how to do what they are told. In case you haven’t looked into it lately, you’d be amazed at the role government plays in the new history books. Nevermind great individual achievements throughout history.
I am still perplexed about post-9/11 signing of the Clinton-era Patriot Act by Bush. Not to mention the massive spending he signed off on that was passed to him by a Democratic congress in his last two years of office. The only conclusion I come to is that he is actually a closet progressive elite who fell victim to his own reputation. That’s the only answer that makes any sense.
So as you go to the ballot boxes next fall, be careful what you ask for, as you just might get it.
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» on 09.20.11 @ 09:17 AM
socal,
I don’t necessarily disagree about politicians in general, but the home of the progressive movement is in the modern democrat party. To be sure, there are big government republicans but they are slowly being weeded out by the tea party. Look what happened to Bennett in Utah and Charlie Crist in Florida. We now have Rubio and Lee in the Senate who are very conservative originalists. You’ll see more of the same this year. The house is significantly more conservative than it was.
I think Obama has awaken our country and scared the crap of us. They pushed to far, too fast and have dug such a deep hole they finally got our attention. If you look at where the conversation has gone it has changed dramatically. The topic is how much to cut, not whether we will or not. Pretty astonishing turnaround in fairly short order.
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» on 09.20.11 @ 02:48 PM
Now, if everybody will just stay stupid for a few more months…
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» on 09.20.11 @ 08:04 PM
So Rambler, not being able to decipher your typically cryptic and meaningless comment let me take a guess at what you meant by everyone staying stupid for a few more months.
If you mean Obama and the Dems, you can pretty much count that they will remain stupid if this last week is any indicator. He’s pandering to the loony leftists like yourself and is chasing away everyone else. Great election strategy. Those approval polls are just rocketing up. The class warfare, tax the rich stuff is really driving those voters to his cause. I think he’s losing it personally. Kind of pathetic really.
If you mean yourself and the rest of your delusional far left marxist buddies, then that would be a 100% probability of remaining terminally stupid and misinformed. Seems to be in the leftist DNA.
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» on 09.20.11 @ 10:11 PM
That’s two strikes, Cardinal Witless. Par for the course.
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» on 09.20.11 @ 11:28 PM
Don’t fret none Wireless. This guy Rambler is just another hapless scared little progressive coward. All talk and nothing more. Pity them.
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» on 09.20.11 @ 11:50 PM
Boys, strike up the twilight zone music for Babbler, he’s losing it.
He’s even more incoherent than usual, which is saying something. His leftist world is collapsing around his tortured little existence in left wing fantasyland….
Class, can we all say: Denial?
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» on 09.21.11 @ 05:47 PM
Okay, I’ll give you hint: It’s not your first two guesses.
Maybe Pope Bogus can figure it out, if he can stop blubbering.
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» on 09.21.11 @ 06:40 PM
Coward.
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» on 09.21.11 @ 07:59 PM
You still sound like you’re crying, son.
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» on 09.21.11 @ 08:21 PM
Rambler, you need to get back on the meds. You make less and less sense with each post. You seem quite unwell to be honest.
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» on 09.21.11 @ 08:53 PM
Coward. You pontificate and yet all that read your absurd self absorbed posts now know that you are just another progressive coward. You had your chance baby - but you have failed for most of your life haven’t you boy?
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» on 09.21.11 @ 10:35 PM
Nope. And you still sound like you’re crying, son.
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» on 09.22.11 @ 04:48 AM
“In the ensuing months, Republican-controlled state legislatures and governors have taken the nation on a conservative course on issues that, in addition to collective bargaining, include pension reform, abortion, voter identification, gun control and immigration.”
The Cannon viewpoint seems mostly accurate about the current political compass swings. Alarming are two serious misconceptions perpetrated by conservative noisemakers.
At a time when most logical minds agree that overpopulation is one of our gravest problems, the all out assault on Planned Parenthood by conservatives is unforgiveable. How can a guy like Arizona Sen. Jon Kyl lie ,in a speech on the Senate floor ,claiming that 90% of PP funding goes to abortion? The truth is that 97% of PP funding goes to womens health and family planning education to young people.Kyl and his likeminded cohorts need to be called out on their lies.
Interceptions and deportation of illegal immigrants are way up under this administration at a time when illegal entry is down due to economic factors. Conservatives love to conveniently overlook that little fact.
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» on 09.22.11 @ 06:27 AM
Run little boy. Run.
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» on 09.22.11 @ 07:31 AM
Last I checked Kyl is a Federal representative for Arizona. Not in the State legislature. Minor point. As to Planned Parenthood, let’s do this - separate it’s current business model. Two entirely separate new businesses. One business provides family planning and health issue support. The other is solely centered on abortions. This way Federal dollars can go to the business that provides family planning and health support. No Federal dollars would be able to go to the new business that provide abortions. As a separate business it would be supported by it’s fee structure, contributions by supporters (like you) of abortion and even other NGO’s. How does that work for you?
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» on 09.22.11 @ 05:06 PM
Ah the trinity of Noozhawk commentors… Petry and his obsession with belittling others and calling them little boys (Dan are you married? Are you gay? you seem a bit obsessed with boys) Wireless with his my way or no way and SoCalJay with his me me me, meme.
The blind leading the blind. None of these fellows seem capable of recalling the facts as to how the leaders of their chosen flock and their amazingly opposite actions to what they preach. Why is that? Are you three suffering from Alzheimers? Why do you only see the world in red or blue? Are you that insecure?
Kind of pathetic that you guys all hang out here and pat each other on the back. You’d make for one boring party.
Here is a take: Most of the country is conservative. Most of the country is also uneducated and ignorant. Most of the country believes that evolution is a theory taught by heathens… Most of the country watches Nascar.
” If you are not careful the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed and loving the people who are doing the oppression. ” Malcolm X
Seems rather appropriate to these fellas continued barrage of hatred and vile.
Cue the “I know you are but what am I’s…”
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» on 09.22.11 @ 06:07 PM
Petri , read the words . I said “Sen. Kyl on the Senate floor.” Cannon speaks of state legislatures so maybe you are just a little confused, again . I know exactly who he is unfortunately.
Spend a couple minutes reading something other than the John Birch Society handbook and you will learn that by law Fed funds cannot be used to fund abortions. Good plan you came up with but just about 30 years behind established legislation.
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» on 09.22.11 @ 08:54 PM
So someguy, let’s see if we understand.
Conservatives are just uneducated knuckle dragging Neanderthals to “enlightened” lefties like you. Nice. We’re all just to stupid to realize that all of the Democrat’s and Obama’s policies that have exploded our debt in three short years, given us a stagnant economy, probably headed to a second recession, high persistent unemployment, and a general sense of impending doom are actually all really successful policies. We are just to stupid to appreciate the genius of you “enlightened” lefties.
Put your tin foil hat back on, you clearly need it. Thank God most of this country is conservative and will put this disaster of a President out of office next year. Not a moment too soon. We can’t take anymore of this brilliance you seem to see. This guy is a one-man wrecking ball to our economy.
Do you really think these policies are working? I’d love to know what you consider a failure if you think these policies are good.
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» on 09.22.11 @ 09:28 PM
someguy—I appreciate the reference to meme because I don’t think that’s a bad thing. But where have I ever asked for anything for myself? I’ve done nothing but rail against those who seem hellbent on destroying this country and the ageless values that created it in the first place. How you can find fault in that I have no idea.
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» on 09.23.11 @ 01:39 AM
I just hope our country can survive the remaining 16 months of Obama’s term. Considering recent events, particularly the reckless policies of our current Federal Reserve (3 Obama appointees), I am not so sure anymore. For the first time in my life, I am extremely worried for the future of our country.
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» on 09.23.11 @ 01:53 AM
Wire , you seem to speak with a lot of authority on economic issues. I’m thinking of jumping on the “Obama is responsible for all the problems created in the past decade” bandwagon and you seem quite the expert on the subject. I must ask - are you an econ major? Retired CEO or budget analyst? What is the source of your wellspring of opinion?
While you’re at it , it’s been almost 10 months since the current House majority took control. Could you give us your expert opinion on what they have done to improve our economic situation? When do they begin to own a piece of this mess?
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» on 09.23.11 @ 06:02 AM
Hey Gee. Didn’t say there was not a law. But I’ve never met a progressive that didn’t abuse OPM. So let’s help all your little baby killers avoid the moral dilemma and break Sanger’s (we need to cull the sub-races) Planned Parenthood up into two separate businesses. Problem and temptation solved.
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» on 09.23.11 @ 09:00 AM
Believe it or not, I have to agree with Gee… on one point - the assault on Planned Parenthood is the wrong way to go. On the other hand, population control was originally a plank in the enviro platform until the PC crowd got control of the movement and figured out that addressing this issue would require focus on just which groups were increasing the population and decided that would be “racist”.
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» on 09.23.11 @ 11:43 AM
Wally,
I’ve never said Obama is the source of all problems in the last decade. Our problems have been building for several decades but Obama is greatly accelerating our demise. That’s not even arguable in my view. I was very unhappy with Bush, the interventions in education with no child left behind and the prescription drug benefit were awful. He also allowed Congress to spend too much money but the scale of what has gone on the last few years is breathtaking.
The federal budget in 2007 (last GOP Congress generated) was about $2.8T with a $160B deficit. The 2011 budget is $3.7T with about a $1.5T deficit (last Dem Congress). That is a 1/3rd increase in spending and a 10x increase in the deficit. I’m sorry, but was the government 33% too small in 2007? Has our population or economy grown by 33% to justify this increase in government? This is madness. We are bankrupting our country.
The new GOP house is trying to get this government back on the rails but they can only pass what they can pass, the Senate and the President both have to assent as well and they insist on continuing down the road to certain financial doom. The Cap, Cut and Balance act they passed would be infinitely better than what we have now. The Ryan budget they passed for 2012 is a serious attempt to start dealing with the systemic problems we have with our budget and entitlements. Agree or not, they are at least recognizing the problems we have and trying to do something about it.
The President and Democrat controlled Senate have not proposed anything that recognizes or tries to deal in a substantive way with the issues we have. In fact, the Democrat controlled house and this current Democrat controlled Senate did not even do a budget the last two fiscal years as they are Constitutionally obligated to do. They just left it on autopilot by continuing resolutions with the huge increases in spending locked in. Totally irresponsible, there is no excuse for that. None.
The budget the President did submit for 2012 was a sick joke. It was rejected, by the Senate 97-0.
My background is of no concern to my analysis, it stands on its own. If you disagree make your case. But I do have the educational and business background to understand what I’m talking about.
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» on 09.23.11 @ 02:26 PM
Just in case you’re confused as to who spent what:
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» on 09.23.11 @ 02:34 PM
nice try someguy, care to provide the source so I can pick it apart?
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» on 09.23.11 @ 02:58 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2011/07/24/opinion/sunday/24editorial_graph2.html
That’s the New York Times - the most well respected news source in the world. But you’ll probably claim its a liberal rag with a liberal agenda… Actual verified facts and non revisionist history have never been a part of the right’s arsenal…
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» on 09.23.11 @ 03:11 PM
The chart is a sick joke. In 2007, the deficit was approx. $150 billion, whereas in 2011 it is projected to be around $1.35 trillion. I used these years because it doesn’t include bailouts, so we are comparing apples to apples. For the idiot who is responsible for this chart, it is laughable to say that Obama will only be responsible for $1.44 trillion of deficits over a 9 year period. If you believe this nonsense, you are on a bad drug.
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» on 09.23.11 @ 03:27 PM
Wow that’s a surprise. A rightie disagreeing with verified, fact checked statisticly verified account while saying his points and statistics are the correct ones…
Lou , Here is some advice: You do yourself no good acting as if you’re smarter than everyone else all the while ignoring those who work harder, are more intelligent and more able and can back up their points with valid data. No wonder you and your brethren like to talk to yourselves and yourselves alone. The blind leading the blind or probably more realistic - the preacher preaching to the converted…
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» on 09.23.11 @ 06:06 PM
Gotta love these guys who NOW say they didnt like Bush . Guys that we damn well know voted for him , TWO TIMES. Guys that didnt care that W’s record as Governor of Texas gave every indication of what was to come. You damn well know that these same dudes almost put Sarah Palin just one pacemaker malfunction away from the Presidency. Now these same guys want us to believe that they know what is best for our country.Ha,give me a break you friggen babosos.
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» on 09.23.11 @ 06:17 PM
I’m changing Pope Bogus’ name to Reverend Jones. I think he’s already sampled the Kool-aide.
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» on 09.23.11 @ 08:40 PM
GWW, why is it that when the chips are down, you guys always resort to calling names? The fact is, you don’t know anyone here. You don’t know their backgrounds or how they live their lives. You and someguy spend a great deal of time attacking people personally versus just attacking a position or point of view. If I knew nothing else about you, and you acted that way to my face, I wouldn’t give you the time of day. Life’s too short to suffer jerks.
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» on 09.24.11 @ 04:34 AM
Thanks for the critique socaljay . I will work on being more civil - as soon as I see your upcoming admonishment of your Noozhawk accomplices for their similar tactics.
I find it curious that you call me out , yet make no mention of Petri repeatedly calling people “coward” or AN50’s frequent use of terms such as “moron” or “intellectual insect” when describing those with whom he disagrees. Why is that?
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» on 09.24.11 @ 08:43 AM
“A rightie disagreeing with verified, fact checked statisticly verified account while saying his points and statistics are the correct ones” - you can’t seriously think that the righties are the only ones doing this. One example of the lefties doing so: the ongoing claim that government workers are undercompensated in spite of multiple studies (some from the US gov) showing otherwise.
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» on 09.24.11 @ 09:26 AM
Someguy,
That link you posted is a great example why the New York Times has lost well over half its readers in recent years and is struggling to stay in business. Lou is correct, this is a sick joke and a complete distortion of reality.
For starters, Obama has continued the wars, much to your chagrin I’m sure, so nearly 1/3rd of that total should go to Obama. Secondly, tax cuts are not an expense. That is typical in the leftist mind because they think all the money belongs to the government and they just let us keep what they think we should have.
They also neglect to mention that tax revenues increased to the government after the tax cuts. From 2004 to 2007 after the 2003 Bush tax cuts, federal tax revenues increased by $785 billion, the largest four-year increase in American history. Here is a little something talking about the dreaded Bush tax cuts that I’m sure will make your head explode:
http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2007/01/ten-myths-about-the-bush-tax-cuts
For example, capital gain tax revenues doubled after the Bush tax cuts as did economic growth, increasing tax revenues. The deficits are primarily a function of too much spending. This same thing has happened when Kennedy cut taxes, when Reagan cut taxes, when Clinton lowered the cap gains and when Bush did.
The NYT didn’t provide the detail on where they came up with this but one thing I notice right off the bat is the increase in discretionary spending under Bush is inaccurate in that in the 2008 budget was produced by Pelosi and the greatly increased spending, the deficit went up from $160B in 2007 to $450B in 2008. Congress produces the budgets. I could spend the rest of the day researching this and picking it apart but I have better things to do.
You guys want to live in fantasyland, go ahead but if you believe this chart from the NYT you are willfully deluding yourself. The fact of the matter is that the budget was $2.7T in FY2007 which is the last budget produced by a GOP Congress and Bush and the budget for FY2011 is about $3.5T a product of Obama and the Democrat Congress. About a 1/3rd increase in 4 years. Unprecedented.
Nice try.
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» on 09.24.11 @ 11:17 PM
Yeah Witless, maybe we should cut taxes again and invade another country. Bush and the Republican Congress were on the right track. If only they had been given more time!
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» on 09.25.11 @ 08:12 AM
Babbler,
Great comeback! Yeah those Dems did a great job when they had the control now didn’t they? The American people were really impressed. You statists are in for another butt whooping next year.
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» on 09.25.11 @ 08:57 AM
Wireless. You are so entrenched in your own beliefs that nothing, no amount of supported facts, new ideas, differnt points will ever change your mind. That is truly sad and is particularly noteworthy since its exactly what is wrong with most Conservatives.
The thing is: I understand why you are that way. But you cannot and do not understand why progressives feel different. There in lies the difference between conservatives and progressives. Progressives understand the other side but CHOOSE their own path. Conservatives cannot comprehend another point of view and so they entrench themselves further, defensively protecting their position regardless of input or shifts.
No wonder most conservatives are boring, un-fun, stale and dry codgers.
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» on 09.25.11 @ 12:17 PM
Babbler,
I’m entrenched in my beliefs and no amount of “facts” can change my mind? Good grief man, look in the mirror. I give you data upon data upon data and you ignore it. Amazing.
I understand you progressives better than you think. You seek equality of outcome, we seek equality of opportunity. That pretty much sums it up.
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» on 09.25.11 @ 01:40 PM
» someguyinsb “Progressives understand the other side but CHOOSE their own path. ... No wonder most conservatives are boring, un-fun, stale and dry codgers.”
someguy—It is so comforting to know how you feel about ideals that are responsible for the deaths of more innocent people in the world than any other. You do realize, don’t you, that progressives not only thought up, but acted upon those wonderful ideologies of communism, socialism and anarchism, don’t you? And you also realize that progressive ideals are not new, but have been tried time and again for the past few hundred years, and that they have failed miserably every time they have been tried, don’t you?
You must also realize that the cornerstone of the founding of America was based on libertarian values? There’s a great book about socialism written by the late Ludwig von Mises. You should read it some time. Until then, don’t be surprised if there are those of us out here who will never submit to the dehumanizing and enslaving ideals of the progressive left.
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» on 09.25.11 @ 03:39 PM
well said socaljay
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» on 09.25.11 @ 05:58 PM
What I find very perplexing is that many of my contemporaries from the 1960’s, who were anti-establishment, distrusted authority, disdainful of govt and were proud non-conformists, are now advocates of big govt and slavishly devoted to the mindless rules and bureaucracy which they once refused to let control them. It is sad to see much of my generation become the willing victims of the authority figures they once abhorred.
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» on 09.25.11 @ 06:50 PM
Don’t worry, Lou. The lefties will get their protest on as soon as a Republican returns to the White House. Only then is dissent the highest form of patriotism. Or whatever moronic bumper-sticker slogan they use.
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» on 09.25.11 @ 08:31 PM
What I find so incredibly obnoxious about this attitude that someguyinsb demonstrated is the moral superiority aspect of it. We conservatives are too stupid, too “unenlightened” and unfeeling to understand how compassionate and superior our liberal/statist/progressive/marxist (take your pick its all the same) friends are.
Never mind their theories have a) never worked and b) delivered more human misery than anything else including famines, disease and natural disaster. Never mind that individual liberty and free markets have improved the lives of more people on this planet than anything, ever. We’re the dummies though.
These “progressives” stopped believing in actual progress a long time ago. They are a bunch of intolerant authoritarians. They know best what best for all of us.
Thank god people that think like this are distinct minority in our great republic.
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» on 09.25.11 @ 09:55 PM
Rambler, don’t worry , our know it all Repub friends here on Noozhawk have it all figured out. They are gonna fix everything with their new W clone Perry.The D’s he got in college, including Econ , probably don’t mean a lot.
Personally I feel reassured about Perry cause “God told him to run” and we all know how well it worked out last time we had a President getting his directives from God. Besides , Obama is getting to be such a bore . It should be a lot more entertaining with Yosimite Sam in the White House.
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» on 09.25.11 @ 10:23 PM
Hmmm. Did Obama ever even take Econ? Somehow I doubt it based upon his hugely destructive policies that have delivered us no growth, high unemployment and massive deficits. I take that back, he probably took Communist Economic Theory 101.
Come to think of it we’ve never seen the genius Obama’s transcripts like we have every other candidate…..
Don’t worry Wally, Rambler, and the rest of you liberal/socialist/progressive/marxists, whatever candidate wins the presidency next year (it won’t be Obama) I’m sure you lefties will think he or she is an idiot. That’s all you’ve got because your ideas have been so thoroughly discredited with the American people you have to change the subject. It will be fun to watch!
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» on 09.26.11 @ 08:58 AM
Yes, you’re less intelligent and less aware. It not my fault your not capable of understanding these things.
Also you’re a little confused. Socialism and Communism is not a part of the modern progressive. You only show your complete ignorance when you cite such things… And religion alone is responsible for more horror, more death, more destruction than any other factor. And the last time I checked Religion (specifically Jesus ) is at the heart of everything your party pursues…
Seems to me that you’ve once again proven my point that you live in a silo, surround yourself with only those who agree with you and continue to believe that your way is the only way. Which is amazing considering the facts of what your party has done in the last 30+ years…
As Forrest Gump so wisely says: “Stupid is as stupid does…”
I need nothing more than a quick view at historical facts to know where your parties policies have put us… Why is it you cannot accept responsibility and culpability? Is it tied to your unfettered faith in the myths of the bible? Regardless, you’re simply not smart enough to know how stupid you are…
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» on 09.26.11 @ 10:02 AM
Socialism is very much part of the progressive perspective. What else do you call taking from the “rich” and giving to the less so? Answer: redistribution of wealth - a primary plank in the socialist (=progressive) platform. I suggest that all the local farlefties go live in less of a paradise for a while and see what happens to their attitudes. Or better yet, study the history of the US and look at the states that have moved from far left to center right, after finding out that the socialist/progressive agenda doesn’t work.
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» on 09.26.11 @ 10:32 AM
From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.
someguyinsb and our lefty posters subscribe to this philosophy, i.e. redistribution of wealth. This of course is the basis of Marxism compliments of Karl Marx. I see no practical difference in what you “progressives” want to do than what Marx espouse, ergo, you share Marxist beliefs, sorry.
someguy, your elitist attitude is typical of a no-nothing, flat earth, no growth progressive/statist/socialist/marxist. Someone with your obviously limited mental capacity telling us we are stupid is laughable.
Put that tin foil hat back on, mommy is calling
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» on 09.26.11 @ 10:35 AM
someguy—Really? Do you ever review and contemplate the vitriol and rhetoric you present here? Though one could argue that religion was involved in the deaths of many throughout the ages, in modern times there is no doubt that secular progressive ideals have killed more people than any other cause in the last 150 years.
You also fall short when discussing politics and its impact. Whether you would admit it or not, Democrat majorities have dominated Congress for the last 80 years. This is where you find the foundations for what ails us now. Unless of course you feel that Democrat majorities in Congress have been unable to push their agenda?
And finally, please show us where you draw the line on modern progressivism? When did that begin, specifically? If modern progressivism began let’s say with the social revolution in the 1960s, how did the SDS and their manifesto, or Prairie Fire, differ from all the other communist manifestos of the modern era? What was Saul Alinsky referring to when he wrote his Rules for Radicals? Or Cloward and Pivens strategy to hijack the Federal government?
You have yet to show is how you acquired all of your vast knowledge that allows you to dismiss the musings of those who challenge you here.
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» on 09.26.11 @ 10:47 AM
I posted this on Mona’s commentary, but its just as applicable here, so enjoy.
You have to make the distinction between wealth accumulation and wealth generation. Warren Buffet never made a single solitary thing of value his entire life. He consumed vast amounts of resources and energy in accumulating the wealth he has. I’m not knocking Buffet. He like many of us who have made money on investments is in the same category. But he is uniquely different from the richest man in the country. Bill Gates was a garage shop entrepreneur. He built one of the largest software companies on earth, a company that has added trillions of dollars of value to our economy, not to mention trillions of dollars of high pay employment. Warren got rich off the efforts of others while Bill got rich enriching others. Big difference people and they are both liberals so this is not a partisan slap.
The left may hate the Koch brothers for being wealthy conservatives but their enterprises enrich the economy as a whole, the left’s wonder boy George Soros on the other hand got rich screwing other economies. Think about the differences.
All of us should be going through the mental exercise of distinguishing value added activities from those that consume value. It works at home, it works on the job, with your own employment, it works in any institution and most people in business practice this discernment everyday. So why do we go out of our way to eliminate it from the entire economy or the political conversation?
I am not suggesting that we punish Warren or the others in his gambler, speculator or middle man class or other net drain services, just that we realize that in order for those sectors to survive without draining us into bankruptcy, we need to have enough wealth being made and generated to support those activities. They are, in fact, no different than government in my mind, necessary evils that are parasitic in nature.
When you consider the time line of our economic demise is nearly 9 decades in the making all this partisan crap being spewed seems a bit shallow and misinformed. We still have more wealth generating manufacturing in America today than any where else; in fact we are twice as large as the next five biggest manufacturing economies. Take that China! Unfortunately we are hawking that wealth generating capacity at an alarming rate and even at its current size its not enough to replace the value we consume. It doesn’t help that our source of cheap energy is gone.
Two things need to happen and fast. Government must stop spending at its current rate and drop that consumption of resources by 50%. Yep that means stopping the wars, cutting the welfare, medicare, social security, EPA, DoE, DoD and everything else.
Second, we must take the shackles off our manufacturing and energy production sectors. Cheap energy is our form of cheap labor. Make energy more expensive and we ship actual labor offshore. We can not compete with slave labor economies in Asia unless we do it here. Better to put 40 million people to work at low wages here than borrow money from our suppliers to keep them on welfare or unemployment.
Do those two things, cut spending by government and entice wealth generating industry here and watch how friggen fast things turn around. If we pursue Obama’s lunatic strategy of progressivism, we will disappear. We will no longer be the innovators, the entrepreneurs, makers of a better life. Instead we will all enjoy the fairness of equally distributed poverty.
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» on 09.26.11 @ 07:36 PM
Bishop ANchove, I agree with a lot of what you say, but to cut SS, medicare, the EPA, DoD, DOE? Well, cutting the DoD via cuts to foreign expenditures would be easy. But many DoD programs spawn civilian industries that improve our cost of living and quality of life. GPS, satellite weather, desalination, and heat-seeking missiles come to mind.
Right now, SS is funded through 2037. To keep it beyond that, we need to make contributions up to the first million of income, instead of just to the first $110K, and maybe lower the contribution percentage throughout. And I think a retirement age of 67 is not unreasonable. People will retire younger if they can, and if so they should wait for benefits.
Cutting medicare could be very ugly. You could start putting a huge number of older citizens in the position of choosing between pills, cat food, or heating oil. And I’m not talking about cat owners.
The DoD and DOE do an incredible job of stimulating new industries, especially in periods when other investment capital is not available. Sure, venture capital is going into “social networking,” but not into equipment, or hard technologies so much. DOE grant programs (like SBIRs) are tightly managed, and have a very good record of accelerating new technology companies through the “valley of death.” If you don’t know about that, ask a venture capitalist. maybe Father Lou.
If you want to get rid of the NIMBY problems with energy, you need the EPA and the Nuclear regulatory agencies. Without enforced regulation, the public will never trust these industries (oil, nuclear) enough to let them produce effectively.
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» on 09.26.11 @ 08:19 PM
Rambler,
If you want to extend the SS tax to all income up to $1 million in wages, you had better lower that contribution percentage by a lot. For example, take an entrepreneur who has somewhere between $110,000 and a million dollars in income. If the Bush tax cuts are repealed, that individual would pay 39.6% marginal tax rate, 15.6% for SS and Medicare and 9.3% state tax (assuming Brown isn’t able to extend the recent tax increase). The marginal rate would now be 65%, much of it being applied to most of his income. I don’t know about you, but it seems confiscatory to me. Since most jobs are created by small businesses, I am not sure how this would revive our economy.
You indicated that DOE does an incredible job of stimulating new industries and their grant programs are tightly managed. Excuse me for my skepticism, but I doubt the DOE does anything closely related to what you assert. A sentence with “Govt” and “tightly managed” in it is a classic oxymoron.
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» on 09.26.11 @ 08:44 PM
Rambler,
You are being misled if you think SS is funded through 2037. That is only if you include the non-existent trust fund. I say non-existent because that money is gone, been spent. The trust fund is nothing but IOUs we taxpayers are one the hook for in the form of special bonds. Its a liability, not an asset. That’s just a large piece of our $14.7T gross debt.
SS is running in the red already, years ahead of schedule due to the recession and more people claiming benefits. More is being paid out now than payroll taxes are coming in. Where is that money going to come from?
We have well over $60T in unfunded entitlement liabilities that can’t be paid. These obligations will be offloaded in some manner, its just math. The demographics are working against us. When these programs started there were a lot of people working for each one receiving benefits, now there are only 3 and in 20 years there will be only 2 people working for each recipient. Taxes would be astronomical to do that and it won’t happen. It’s just a matter of time until these programs are fundamentally privatized or radically reduced. They can’t continue as they are.
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» on 09.26.11 @ 09:13 PM
Rambler,
For once you and I actually agree on something!
Much of the DoD spending ends up redounding to great benefit of us all. Great example is the power amps in our cell phones that enable us to have such small feature packed and relatively cheap handsets. That technology was nurtured for radio and radar uses by DARPA and DoD for 20 years before it became widely commercially available at low cost. The TTL logic in semiconductors that is the basis for most of out microprocessors was developed and funded by NASA for the Apollo program. There are many examples of this.
DoD is one of the few things our federal government is Constitutionally authorized to do and as a general rule, they perform better than pretty much every other govt. agency particularly given the size. Sure there is waste but on balance the public gets what they pay for. I don’t think that is the case with most other agencies. The SBIR program is a very good program and the government gets a lot of bang for the buck.
DOE, I would have to mostly disagree. They have grown huge, spend tons of money, create no energy and have horribly failed at their stated mission of making us energy independent. They failed. Close it down or reduce its scope to researching new energy sources. Make a stand-alone NRC or have the Navy do it and actually build some nuke plants for a change.
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